Technology. Do we make better recordings?

B

Barth

Where is my Shrink!
Aug 25, 2004
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Biosphere One
I started this thread to see how you people think about the technology ratrace.
Manufactures try to make us believe that we need their latest products to make hightech recordings.

I'm on Andy''s forum cose he changed metalsound drastic.
Transparant, well balanced, tight as an ass productions.
Also he's a nice person who is willing to share some of his knowlegde. :headbang:

If I read the forum well, his most popular albums are The Gathering and DeadHeart.
After those albums there is changed a lot, equipment wise.
But the main question is does it all sound better? Different maybe. Matter of taste!
I think that Andy can make well sounding recording on a 001!
OK! He would be pissed off not to have some handy gadgets.
Do you remember how he recorded The Gathering?
Most of us would be very happy if we could make a recording that comes close!
Pitty, tracking the drums was not on the video Andy:)

So where bring us this.
For myshelf, I'm a gearfreak and have a lot of gear.
I have stuff wich is better than used on the The Gathering. But mine sounds less! :lol:
Andy, you rule!!

Gentlemen, you're opinion please!

(I'v left out the skills of the musicians, wich is very, very important.
Again, I'm shure that Andy has sometimes one (or two) who are less skilled I believe.)


 
I think technology is very important and should not be denied... but skills might be more worth than the latest gear, right? so what will I do now? lets go learning... :)

there's one thing I want to know... what DVD are you talking about exactly? it might be worth for me to check that.
 
Technology and recording... A funny one for me. The answer is no, we don't make better records.

I'm a gear freeak too but I think music gets worse and more boring.

First problem is the bands. There are WAY to many bands, labels etc. the internet has made it all very easy.

Second problem is digital equipment. Nothing wrong with the "technology" itself, I have been using pro tools since version 4 and I love the flexibility that digital offers. The problem is how cheap it's getting. These days you can make a killer metal album with a very low budget. Get a PC an Maudio card, an sm57 and drumkit from hell and voila! I'm getting a bit bored of metal in general as it all sounds too much the same. This is not only an "engineering" problem but also a "band" problem. Very few bands are pushing the envelope for a few years now. Bands are also relying way too much on digital editing, Therefore they feel that there is no need for them to become better mmusicians. I have been stuck in situations many times where the band comes in the studio, can't fucking play, they have shit gear and then I tell them that it's sounding shit. then they say "oh yeah, but you have "pro Tools" right? That'll make it sound good". I hate this attitude. I feel like saying "look, go and learn how to play your instrument and learn how to play as unit"... "oh yes... and PISS OFF". The best recordings I have done it has had a lot to do with the people involved being able to play properly.

As for "good" hardware , yes I do really like. I would have a good comp/eq any day of the week than a plugin. just because I like the sound.

some old hardware I really love too. Back in the day, recording studios were very few and there was no mass market. Equipment back then was very well built, no messing.

Then I think of people like Andy. I do really like some of the albums he has done. He has his own style and that is great. The main problem with Andy is that everybody is copying him!

The thing that I don't like about some Andy's records is the drum sound. But that is because I like raw drums (like Albini etc).

Technology is good an bad.
 
I think that technology has made recording music more accessible to more people and I do think that is a great thing. I think that every musician should be able to at least get a good sound recording of songs that they have written. I think we all write music for personal expression or sorts so I think technology has helped in that aspect. I do agree with you guys that since it has become easier some people take the easy way out and rely on it too much instead of just being damn good at their insturments instead. I play guitar/bass/drums and I think that I have learned a lot from just putting a microphone in front of myself and listening. As I've gotten better at mixing/mastering I've actually found myself a lot realizing that maybe I should just have played the insturment better in the first place!
 
My opinion? I really wish these manufacturers would stop making budget stuff. Sorry if that strikes anyone as being odd, but hey...there are some people out there that do this for a living, and when any asshole with a couple hundred bucks can go out and get a setup to record guitars bass and vocals, then plop another couple hundred and get a drum sample library, record an album and have it sound decent...it really hurts the guys who have to make money doing it. I'm not trying to say that I think project studios in musician's homes are a bad idea...but when people buy like $1k of equipment and take our business and then go to their day job...it's kinda fucked up. Nevermind the fact that we do a better job on the production, that we have tens of thousands of dollars in equipment, a dedicated building for recording, and experience.

As far as production quality is concerned...I can tell you that from my years of experience doing this professionally, it's all in the user. You can have a jillion dollars worth of equipment, but that guy that makes music in his basement on his laptop all day wouldn't know where to start. You throw a guy that's got a good ear and knows how to use the shit, and you'll get one awesome sounding album. Same goes for the budget studio, if you have about $1k of equipment, you throw somebody behind it that has an ear and knows what he's doing, he'll make it sound like the jillion dollar studio.

But there are so many variables. Say you got the jillion dollar studio, a great engineer, but the band fucking sucks and has crap for equipment. Not gonna work. Also, you could have the great engineer, budget studio, great musicians with great gear. It'll sound great.

It's like a never-ending battle. You can have the best gear, best ear, but get horrible clients. Budget gear, good ear, great clients. Budget gear, amie ear, great clients...on and on.

Bleh.

~006
 
Technology has helpes us to accept crappy performances, because we can always soundreplace and beat-detect the crap out of everything. This means, that even mediocre bands get to release records today, with mediocre songs that follow the mediocre hype - and they will be forgotten shortly. I'm glad that equipment has become so cheap that anyone can sit at home and record their own material, but I seriously doubt that music has become better - after all: if you have a great song, it'll still be ok with a less than stellar production, but definately not the other way around.

I think the production standard sucks today - generally speaking.
 
I agree whole heartedly on the home project studio thing. I mean, I think it's great that people all over can sit down and throw their ideas down and make drums and everything and have it sound like a pretty damn decent demo/amie album. My problem is with the people who try to take in other bands using this method and take business away from the professionals. They/we are professionals for a reason: we do this to make a living. Meaning this is all we do, every day, almost 24/7 in my case. I'm just saying I wish people would stop going from doing their own stuff, to taking in bands and applying the same crap production to their stuff too. Id' rather that person have their own actual studio and do it full-time and become competition, instead of undercutting us by doing it at their house in their spare time.

With all that said, there will always be business for everyone, honestly. We are always booked 3-6 months in advance, so I have no worries of not having any work/income. Just generally speaking, it's freakin' annoying.

~006
 
006 said:
I agree whole heartedly on the home project studio thing. I mean, I think it's great that people all over can sit down and throw their ideas down and make drums and everything and have it sound like a pretty damn decent demo/amie album. My problem is with the people who try to take in other bands using this method and take business away from the professionals. They/we are professionals for a reason: we do this to make a living. Meaning this is all we do, every day, almost 24/7 in my case. I'm just saying I wish people would stop going from doing their own stuff, to taking in bands and applying the same crap production to their stuff too. Id' rather that person have their own actual studio and do it full-time and become competition, instead of undercutting us by doing it at their house in their spare time.

With all that said, there will always be business for everyone, honestly. We are always booked 3-6 months in advance, so I have no worries of not having any work/income. Just generally speaking, it's freakin' annoying.

~006
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know what you mean, but most of the small bands are happy with a mediocre production because they aren't going to be able to afford to record in a studio like Andy's for instance. But on the other hand I also understand that no matter how small the band is, if they come into your studio and record, it's still money for you. In short, I think it's ok for the smaller bands to stick to bedroom producers/producing it themselves. But the bigger bands should have the sense to go to a bigger studio and get an experienced engineer behind the desk.
 
As a second comment, I would love to hear what guys like Bob/Mendel, etc. could do with a "jillion dollar studio", and a completely human lineup. And I also believe you can reach limits as far as quality within the gear you own, even if it's medium level stuff.
 
I think our growing reliance on technology to give us passable performances and reasonable sound quality with less input from us, the users (whether engineers or musicians) is a bit of a double-edged sword.

Whilst it's fantastic to have the flexibility to be able to get even a mediocre client and make them sound broadcast-ready, there is an increasing tendency to rely on digital editing 'tricks' to slide a record along.

A lot of guys don't know shit about tuning/mic'ing kits. I hazard to say a lot of it has to do with the drum samples they started working with out of their bedroom when they started engineering. As such, they'll always use samples as a crutch, and never give much thought to the actual acoustic tracking of drums.

The guys who are gear whores seem to suffer from an affliction that leads them to believe that better gear will somehow give them a better ear and better engineering skill. It's like people are willing to spend more simply to do less in the hope of having technology do their job for them, whether musicians or engineers.

As outlined by Gomez, it's a very common scenario that a band will walk into a studio, unrehearsed, loose as pammy anderson and just say 'that's okay, you have pro tools right?'. I'm sorry I don't think my version has the 'add talent' button. Maybe that's in the next revision, guys?
 
Moonlapse said:
I think our growing reliance on technology to give us passable performances and reasonable sound quality with less input from us, the users (whether engineers or musicians) is a bit of a double-edged sword.

Whilst it's fantastic to have the flexibility to be able to get even a mediocre client and make them sound broadcast-ready, there is an increasing tendency to rely on digital editing 'tricks' to slide a record along.

A lot of guys don't know shit about tuning/mic'ing kits. I hazard to say a lot of it has to do with the drum samples they started working with out of their bedroom when they started engineering. As such, they'll always use samples as a crutch, and never give much thought to the actual acoustic tracking of drums.

The guys who are gear whores seem to suffer from an affliction that leads them to believe that better gear will somehow give them a better ear and better engineering skill. It's like people are willing to spend more simply to do less in the hope of having technology do their job for them, whether musicians or engineers.

As outlined by Gomez, it's a very common scenario that a band will walk into a studio, unrehearsed, loose as pammy anderson and just say 'that's okay, you have pro tools right?'. I'm sorry I don't think my version has the 'add talent' button. Maybe that's in the next revision, guys?
Click to expand...

well said
 
i think no one has mentioned the exact opposite case: when a "somehow more than mediocre" band that has no money has the opportunity to record in a cheap studio equipped with few bucks worth of gear because "digital" gives them the opportunity to do it... my band would never have the economic possibility of recording with mr. Sneap or whoever else at his level. We spent like 150 euros for our last recordings (well, also because the mics and mixer were mine, but that's not the point...), and you can hear the results...
the only thing we triggered was the bass drums (pretty common thing in our genre), everything else was left unprocessed, apart from the usual eq-ing and compressing and reverbering when needed
i think i'm just something more than a mediocre musician, but i'm lucky enough to have a drummer who's the missing link between man and drum-machine, but if we had to wait and recollect enough money to afford a hi-cost and hi-profile studio, we would probably never put out our last record, given that we almost NEVER play live cause our singer and current bass player live 800 km away from here...
the moral of the story is: long live cheap home/project studios, as long as they're not an alibi for bad bands
as for said bad bands, don't worry, most of them won't survive the test of a live performance, where anyone can see if you're good or if you suck and no beat detector or trigger or pitch corrector will save you from sucking...
 
I lokk at it this way - in the right hands any medium and any techniques/equipment can achieve any result. I've been lucky enough to experience top £1000 a day + staff end cutting edge studios, and in the depths of new cross during downtime overnight recording and I can honestly say that at the end of the day although good recording recordings came from both - so did bad. It was entirely upto the musicians involved.

That being said I do agree that technology has made everyone a 'good' musician and we now everyday hear music by artists that would have been allowed to string the guitars of the older generation of musicians out there but times change. I always ask myself - am I trying to sell records and make a good living for me and my family - or am I trying to impress some audiophile in another black cell studio somewhere else in the world.

The 'general' public care about one thing in my opinion - Does it have the mood and atmosphere that I want to be a part of. POP music and by that I mean anything that makes a name for itself and not just spitney queers is by it's very nature and often design an attempt to crack into fashion and peoples desire to be a part of something.

Anyway I digress, I don't care how it is made, by whom, with what, and why - so long as it has intangible 'x factor', that little summit summit, the etheral quality that makes alot of the tracks from the past still stand out which I do sadly feel is lacking in a lot of todays music. The musicians/artist are paramount - if you are 'buying' into their talent or their image is up to you - undoubtedly if not subconsciuosly you are buying into both.

I feel that will change though, especially with record companies now demanding a split of live performances to pay back royalties - records are simply becoming a promotional tool for ticket sales - so at some point the only bands that will be succesful will be the ones that can pull it off live - well I hope anyway.:lol:

To sum up me essay - What tools you use are irrelevant, how you use the tools is the key. And it helps to have something good to work with in the first place.
 
cobhc said:
Yeah, I know what you mean, but most of the small bands are happy with a mediocre production because they aren't going to be able to afford to record in a studio like Andy's for instance. But on the other hand I also understand that no matter how small the band is, if they come into your studio and record, it's still money for you. In short, I think it's ok for the smaller bands to stick to bedroom producers/producing it themselves. But the bigger bands should have the sense to go to a bigger studio and get an experienced engineer behind the desk.
Click to expand...


As good as a place like andy's may be - it aint shit compared to air lyndhurst or places like Jacobs, if we are talking about gear and expense. No offence meant. But as I think good results are possible anywhere. Take Californication or SOAD self titled album for example the sounds are pretty shitty but the vibe is right. In my opinion any place can produce the snapshot of time we call music and anybody can create a classic. except me at the moment:cry:
 
sneap (backstage) is way better than jacobs i.m.h.o but i guess different horses for different courses really.
 
I think thanks to technology amateurs have a bigger change to showing their qualities instead of pro's. Since the 1960 I don't think it made it better, maybe if you even look on a professional level it made it worse, why? Well with all the computers nowadays in pro studio's a lot is "fixed" to sound mechanicly good..where some people get superhuman performances on cd's.

But in the overall picture I think thanks to technology the recording for home users is way more available and a lot more talent is shown and revealed...

just my 0.02
 
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