Tempo changes... Do you do it?

[Rhys Llewellyn]

So... I have maybe around 150 projects from ideas to full songs. Only one of them has a complete tempo change. When that happened it was literally a fluke. I'd accidentally sped up the MIDI triggered drums in the tempo track and realised it worked really well, but yeah I never change tempo for songs usually.

The reason I'm asking is because I've been messing around with a lot of professional vocal stems recently. Mainly No Doubt, Alanis Morisette and Lady Gaga.

"Don't Speak" for instance goes massively out of time from the click so I'm assuming they tracked live with a real drummer and also I'm not even sure if computer recording was even around back then but... the Lady Gaga one has me stumped.

It was without doubt recorded in to ProTools with a drum machine (I'm talking about Love Game btw). If you solo the vocals to the click track they do drift quite a bit from a fixed tempo which has made me question...

Is it commonplace to maybe boost the chorus a few BPM or something? Do you guys do this? Maybe this is where I'm going wrong with tracks I struggle to finish, but that said, it nearly always sounds "wrong" to significantly change to a random tempo in a song.

Any thoughts?

 

[Ionei]

I've heard of a few people speeding it up for chorus' to get make it more energetic.

I usually have a few tempo changes in my songs if they call for it.
Making fast riffy bits a tad quicker depending on the drums.

If a tempo change works, it works.

 

[53Crëw]

I do some of the time. I also do things like having the kick slightly ahead on beat 1 and the snare ahead or behind on 2 and 4 depending on the kind of feel I'm after. It really depends on the type of music and what's appropriate for the song.

I started a thread a while back and there's a link to a good article in SOS further down the page.

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/production-tips/512134-tempo-changes.html

 

[theNeologist]

I'm far from an expert....but figured i'd share my thoughts. I rarely ever change tempo in my music. The only instance i can think I would is if i have an intro piece that is to stand apart from the body of the song....but thats about it. Of course I utilize half time/double time feels, but this isn't tempo change persay....more or less tempo perception change. I would find that very chaotic and hard to manage to increase just the chorus lets say. Timing is a huge part of the music to me...so that could be another reason I can't imagine scramlbing the tempos at certain sections. Granted there are bands out there who are more unorthodox with weird timings and feels.....but since you're specifically calling out Lady Gaga and No Doubt....couldn;t tell you. I do find that strange though.

 

[arv_foh]

some of the songs I've tracked have had 20-30 tempo changes

 

[Rhys Llewellyn]

I do some of the time. I also do things like having the kick slightly ahead on beat 1 and the snare ahead or behind on 2 and 4 depending on the kind of feel I'm after. It really depends on the type of music and what's appropriate for the song.

I started a thread a while back and there's a link to a good article in SOS further down the page.

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/production-tips/512134-tempo-changes.html

Thanks man.

There's plenty of info to be getting on with through there.

It does seem it's very common place. I haven't read the SOS article yet but still my initial instincts of speeding up the chorus by one BPM, for example, seems negligible to me and an unnecessary pain in the ass when it comes to editing, but since a lot of people do so, then maybe it could make or break a song.

Only one way to find out, I guess...

 

[Rhys Llewellyn]

I'm far from an expert....but figured i'd share my thoughts. I rarely ever change tempo in my music. The only instance i can think I would is if i have an intro piece that is to stand apart from the body of the song....but thats about it. Of course I utilize half time/double time feels, but this isn't tempo change persay....more or less tempo perception change. I would find that very chaotic and hard to manage to increase just the chorus lets say. Timing is a huge part of the music to me...so that could be another reason I can't imagine scramlbing the tempos at certain sections. Granted there are bands out there who are more unorthodox with weird timings and feels.....but since you're specifically calling out Lady Gaga and No Doubt....couldn;t tell you. I do find that strange though.

Yeah man, by tempo changes I mean changing the BPM totally.

I regularly jump from different time signatures and rhythmic divisions for each song.

I think we think along the same lines. Perhaps we're missing something magical here though? lol.

I was calling out those examples because I noticed even with Lady Gaga being a very modern production that even that didn't adhere to a strict click track even with a drum machine playing, so can't blame it on the drummer, it must've been intentional.

 

[Moonlight_Seeker]

I'm quite sure I saw an interview with mister Sneap once upon a time where he said he frequently speeds up the chorus by like 5bpm. <- not word for word.
And it might sometimes be easier to make "harsh" tempo changes with midi drums than real musicians?

 

[egan.]

I do it all of the time. Usually it's only a few BPM either way, but really it's whatever the music calls for.

 

[BLUElightCory]

It's pretty common practice to program subtle tempo changes to simulate a live band's natural ebb and flow - this let you keep some live "feel" while retaining the benefits of the click. As others have said, it can help you enhance the urgency of the track, emphasize a groove, etc.

 

[Rhys Llewellyn]

It's pretty common practice to program subtle tempo changes to simulate a live band's natural ebb and flow - this let you keep some live "feel" while retaining the benefits of the click. As others have said, it can help you enhance the urgency of the track, emphasize a groove, etc.

The thing I don't really get though is how you "feel" this.

I completely understand if you're a full band and you're recording with a liove drummer.

I record everything myself using programmed drums. To just push the chorus tempo forwards a few BPM for the hell of it doesn't really sound that efficient in my situation. It's like... where do you draw the line. Kinda like when you're looking for a decent VST synth. You may find a preset that works really well, but maybe there is another one that's even better in the thousands of presets you have. Like how do you determine what "works" if it is just a few BPM off. It only becomes apparent if you listen to the tracks to a click track.

I have drunk a whole bottle of gin tonight. I think I'm still pretty with it, but if something didn't make sense, just email me using "RE:gin" lol.

 

[Torniojaws]

I sometimes use small changes, but not so often. 5 bpm more for a chorus, mostly. Then sometimes total changes, like from 120 bpm to 150 bpm. But it is usually a question of the song arrangement if that kind of change works or not.

 

[morpheusmultimedia]

I've heard of a few people speeding it up for chorus' to get make it more energetic.

This is something andy sneap mentioned in that interview that was posted here a couple of weeks agou. +2 BPM for the choruses to get some energy in there.

 

[greyskull]

Absolutely LOADS.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

yes

 

[Ermz]

Tons. My song maps look like mountain ranges half the time. You want to feel and pace everything.

 

[Mago]

not much at all.
on our album on 2 songs out of 11. on from has a more laid back chorus and faster verse, interludes ect...and the other is a piano ballad.
I don't like to do tempo changes like mad, it leads me to stick together different parts/ideas that don't really fit well, only because I WANT them to fit to be able to use them.
Never turned out well for me.
But I'm also not a huge fan of stuff that fucks with bpm and time signature randomly.

 

[bryan_kilco]

Yep, a shitload.

Speaking of......

tracking drums yesterday. After we went through the clicks and decided all tempos were good to go. But NOOOOOOO. Drummer boy feels like its too fast or too slow in parts, so had to take way too much time editing the time sig markers. FML.

 

[El_Gato]

2-3 min usually, just a few bpm's

 

[BLUElightCory]

The thing I don't really get though is how you "feel" this.

I completely understand if you're a full band and you're recording with a liove drummer.

I record everything myself using programmed drums. To just push the chorus tempo forwards a few BPM for the hell of it doesn't really sound that efficient in my situation. It's like... where do you draw the line. Kinda like when you're looking for a decent VST synth. You may find a preset that works really well, but maybe there is another one that's even better in the thousands of presets you have. Like how do you determine what "works" if it is just a few BPM off. It only becomes apparent if you listen to the tracks to a click track.

I have drunk a whole bottle of gin tonight. I think I'm still pretty with it, but if something didn't make sense, just email me using "RE:gin" lol.

I record mostly full bands, and generally I'll have the band (or just the drummer and rhythm guitarist/bassist) play the song together without the click - I then go through that performance and map the tempo.

Usually, live bands do things like speeding up the chorus, slowing down heavy/breakdown parts, speeding up/slowing down key fills, etc. So I'll program the click to mimic their natural tempo changes a bit.

I wouldn't worry about programming in arbitrary tempo changes if you've written the song without them, they won't make or break the song. But if you're trying to make it seem less mechanical, some subtle tempo changes could help (because almost any group of five dudes in a room is going to have tempo fluctuations when they play without a metronome). I personally don't usually push the tempo changes unless it's something the band does naturally.