The brain-dead pregnant woman.

[Mutant]

OK so CNN is not doing a good job on this story if it comes to important details.
Anyone here following the story ?
Do you know if they determined exactly how old the child inside of her womb really is ?

The shortest pregnancy where the child survived is Amillia Sonja Taylor - she was born at about 21-23 weeks (different sources state different numbers).

Also CNN says the child is "abnormal".
That word has a very wide set of meanings...
Do you have any links where i could read more about it ?

 

[~BURNY~]

I read hydrocephalus and possible heart problems. Can't remember where, maybe on reddit, try r/morbidreality.

 

[jipchen]

The "Süddeutsche Zeitung" wrote the unborn suffers from deformed extremities and hydrocephaly. It is also unclear how long the oxygen supply was cut off and it probably has cardio-vascular diseases as well. But all that doesn't matter anyways because it's the family's decision and the women did not want life prolonging measures so everyone else should stfu asap.

 

[Mutant]

I read hydrocephalus and possible heart problems. Can't remember where, maybe on reddit, try r/morbidreality.

The "Süddeutsche Zeitung" wrote the unborn suffers from deformed extremities and hydrocephaly. It is also unclear how long the oxygen supply was cut off and it probably has cardio-vascular diseases as well.

Thx for that info.

But all that doesn't matter anyways because it's the family's decision and the women did not want life prolonging measures so everyone else should stfu asap.

It is not that black-white in my book.
There are some different standards and a very fluid border both of where a bunch of cells ends and a human starts in case of what/who is inside the womb and where a human ends and a bunch of cells starts in case of what/who is connected to the life support gear at that hospital.
And that is way more important than what the family wants or doesn't want.

 

[Skinny Viking]

But all that doesn't matter anyways because it's the family's decision and the women did not want life prolonging measures so everyone else should stfu asap.

Exactly

1000000%

And yes, it IS that black and white

 

[SocialNumb]

+2

Honestly though, it sounds like this child is going to have a terrible life. Just shut it off and spare all the pain.

 

[Mutant]

And yes, it IS that black and white

Really ?
Even if the unborn child was healthy and it was lets say 7th month of that pregnancy today?

There has to be some gray area between the black and the white.

I know there are hardcore firebrand feminists who say that abortion is 100% the womans decision for 100% of the pregnancy time even 1 day before the scheduled birth date, "because the child in the womb is a part of the womans body and her own property" - yes there really are sick people like that on this planet... i am surprised to find someone who shares that view here.

Thats why i asked about how advanced was that pregnancy.
I still don't know the answer to that question.

Letting the body of that woman die means abortion for the unborn child and the child is the one >person< who can gain or lose something (life) in this situation.

And don't get me wrong, i am not pro or against abortion, i just think that this whole topic is one big gray area.

Taking a life our modern medicine could potentially save (if they thought it was impossible they would not even think for a minute to keep that body alive for that long) just to bury the dead as soon as possible... gray.

 

[Mutant]

it sounds like this child is going to have a terrible life. Just shut it off and spare all the pain.

I agree this is logical, but is it moral ? Killing the disabled "because their life would be painful anyway".

 

[Mutant]

Ok so i found that she was 14 weeks pregnant when the accident happened.
http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/01/22/5506250/fetus-in-munoz-case-is-distinctly.html?rh=1

That makes the pregnancy at about 22-23 weeks now.
Which means that only a miracle would save that childs life if it were taken out today.

 

[SocialNumb]

Morality is just a social construct. Morality changes over time. That said, yes, I think it's moral. I have no clue how far along the child is but if it's just cells I say let them go. I'm not saying lets just kill disabled people because their life might suck, don't get me wrong here. I'm just talking about this situation. Sounds bad all around.

 

[indecizo]

Really ?
Even if the unborn child was healthy and it was lets say 7th month of that pregnancy today?

There has to be some gray area between the black and the white.

I know there are hardcore firebrand feminists who say that abortion is 100% the womans decision for 100% of the pregnancy time even 1 day before the scheduled birth date, "because the child in the womb is a part of the womans body and her own property" - yes there really are sick people like that on this planet... i am surprised to find someone who shares that view here.

Thats why i asked about how advanced was that pregnancy.
I still don't know the answer to that question.

Letting the body of that woman die means abortion for the unborn child and the child is the one >person< who can gain or lose something (life) in this situation.

And don't get me wrong, i am not pro or against abortion, i just think that this whole topic is one big gray area.

Taking a life our modern medicine could potentially save (if they thought it was impossible they would not even think for a minute to keep that body alive for that long) just to bury the dead as soon as possible... gray.

You sure you're not against abortion?

 

[~BURNY~]

I don't really have an opinion about this situation (leaning on the unplug her side) but I think it's interesting that it happened in a state that hasn't banned death penalty.

 

[schwinginbatman]

In this case, I'm not really sure I can support those who want to keep her alive. I mean, either they take her off of life-support and the fetus dies, or they wait until the fetus is viable, in which case the fetus will have significant health problems and most likely wont even make it very long. It seems that either way it's going to end with both the woman and child dying, so why not just end their suffering now?

The viewpoint that all abortion is wrong just isn't a very good position. Of course, those who take the opposite extreme, IMO, aren't very much better, but I just can't get behind the idea that we must do everything to ensure that the child makes it to term, even when most likely that child will die shortly after. It just seems arbitrary to me.

 

[Mutant]

You sure you're not against abortion?

Obviously it depends on the stage of development of the fetus/child.
Wgich is too complex for me to explain here without writing a book sized post.

 

[xFkx]

so it's not one of those "the brain-dead pregnant woman walks into a bar" threads ? ;/

 

[Vice//Versa]

I think keeping a woman in some terrible state of "life" while her family suffers is terribly inhuman and almost undignifying to women. Like, you're a incubator before you are a human being. The child, IMO, is not developed enough to justify putting him through such pain. It's a shitty situation all around :S

 

[bryan_kilco]

Ehh....I was born about 3 1/2 months premature in 1982. Apparently I was a miracle baby. Have had a heart murmur my entire life, and fairly certain other health issues stem from being popped out so early. I'm actually surprised I've lived this long....

Personally, I'd lean towards pull the plug. Sad thing, but spare the misery.

 

[JeffTD]

I'm not this woman or her family, so I don't really have a say in what they do. None of us do.

 

[Skinny Viking]

Really ?
Even if the unborn child was healthy and it was lets say 7th month of that pregnancy today?

There has to be some gray area between the black and the white.

I know there are hardcore firebrand feminists who say that abortion is 100% the womans decision for 100% of the pregnancy time even 1 day before the scheduled birth date, "because the child in the womb is a part of the womans body and her own property" - yes there really are sick people like that on this planet... i am surprised to find someone who shares that view here.

Thats why i asked about how advanced was that pregnancy.
I still don't know the answer to that question.

Letting the body of that woman die means abortion for the unborn child and the child is the one >person< who can gain or lose something (life) in this situation.

And don't get me wrong, i am not pro or against abortion, i just think that this whole topic is one big gray area.

Taking a life our modern medicine could potentially save (if they thought it was impossible they would not even think for a minute to keep that body alive for that long) just to bury the dead as soon as possible... gray.

Yes really

 

[updog]

so it's not one of those "the brain-dead pregnant woman walks into a bar" threads ? ;/

If it were, I'm admittedly curious as to how the joke would continue...