The Business of Phish

[KingsGene]

Regardless of your thoughts of Phish's music, it's still an interesting read. It's a shame some bands or individuals in "our" genre can't apply some of these ideals and make it work....

The Business of Phish

"... Phish doesn’t make money by selling music. They make money by selling live music, and that, it turns out, is a more durable business model. This wasn’t some brilliant pre-calculated strategy by the band or its managers; it’s the business model that sprung forth from the kind of music the band makes. The band developed the kernel of this musical style during their first five years when they played almost exclusively in bars in Burlington, Vermont, and slowly, but organically, grew their audience.

During this period they maniacally focused on improving the quality of their music through intense practice and frequent gigs at bars. And while at first these gigs were relatively unsuccessful, over time their audiences grew, the band started to make money, and then, after five years of obscurity, they were profitable before anyone in the music industry knew who the hell they were. And with profitability came the freedom to make music on their terms.

In the parlance of startup language, Phish bootstrapped their business rather than seeking support from institutional players like record labels, talent agencies, and concert promoters. And that’s made all the difference..."

More here: http://blog.priceonomics.com/post/48216173465/the-business-of-phish

 

[Jasonic]

Or more simply put, they followed the model of the Grateful Dead...

Same thing. A very successful band who sold few records.
They were truly a LIVE band.

I would DARE Metallica, Maiden, Priest, Sabbath, etc, etc to go on the road and 100% change the setlist EVERY night.
That's what the Dead did, and I believe Phish do as well...

You can see them 5 nights in a row and never hear a repeat song.

I have seen both the Dead and Phish in the early 90s.
While not my thing at all I still to this day appreciate what they do for their fans, and believe they deserve EVERY bit of success they have both earned.

They did it the right way, regardless of what folks think of their music, as Scott said above................

 

[DuchessOfDork]

Very interesting read!

 

[dcowboys311]

I would DARE Metallica, Maiden, Priest, Sabbath, etc, etc to go on the road and 100% change the setlist EVERY night.
That's what the Dead did, and I believe Phish do as well...

You can see them 5 nights in a row and never hear a repeat song.

I actually read last week (what I was doing reading about Phish, I do not know...) that Phish hasn't repeated a single setlist since the early 90's. No matter what your opinion on their music is, that is damn impressive.

 

[Jasonic]

I actually read last week (what I was doing reading about Phish, I do not know...) that Phish hasn't repeated a single setlist since the early 90's. No matter what your opinion on their music is, that is damn impressive.

It is beyond impressive.
It is downright amazing!

That's how you keep your band operating.
Giving the fans what they want.

They seem to release albums when they feel they have something worthy to put out. Unlike other bands, they don't just put out material just to keep the name out there.

They do it by playing live. And every show is unique as you said.

I remember a while back being at Borders or somethign and there was a book that detailed EVERY Phish setlist since the beginning.

 

[nomisofsiman]

This is why I love Pearl Jam so much. Another one of the few acts that change their setlist up a lot. It's too bad like Jason said, most metal acts don't do this

 

[the rhythm]

Clutch is another band that routinely changes their setlist. You would think bands would get bored with playing the same songs every night.

 

[Formerly known as Chris F5]

Wish Rush did this

 

[nomisofsiman]

Clutch is another band that routinely changes their setlist. You would think bands would get bored with playing the same songs every night.

I think it honestly comes to most bands being lazy. More than anything, this is why I wasn't the biggest fan that Portnoy left Dream Theater, because I have a feeling now they're just going to be doing the same setlists.

 

[nomisofsiman]

Wish Rush did this

I'm actually surprised they don't. They seem like one band that would do that.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Dream Theater used to be legendary for doing this,which was Mike Portnoy's thing. He would constantly change the setlist which for a band like that is a pretty impressive feat. He would implement setlist "rules", like when the band has a two night stand in the same city the second night would be a covers set.

If you ask me, that's why Dream Theater was able to continue playing 5-10,000+ people sheds even when their style of music was unpopular. Nowadays, musical wizardry is hip and cool, so Dream Theater is seeing things like top 10 charting debuts, but before that they still saw massive success and I think that has to do with the live show.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Or more simply put, they followed the model of the Grateful Dead...

Same thing. A very successful band who sold few records.
They were truly a LIVE band.

I would DARE Metallica, Maiden, Priest, Sabbath, etc, etc to go on the road and 100% change the setlist EVERY night.
That's what the Dead did, and I believe Phish do as well...

You can see them 5 nights in a row and never hear a repeat song.

I have seen both the Dead and Phish in the early 90s.
While not my thing at all I still to this day appreciate what they do for their fans, and believe they deserve EVERY bit of success they have both earned.

They did it the right way, regardless of what folks think of their music, as Scott said above................

While Metallica doesn't completely do set overhauls every night, they DEFINITELY change their sets nightly on tour and do alot of interesting things. I'm not sure where you're assuming otherwise. They JUST did a Black Album only tour last year where they played the entire s/t from front to back for the 20th anniversary. When I saw them years ago, they played Disposable Heroes for the first time in like 15 years. Saw them again on the Death Magnetic tour in 2008/9 and they played the title track off And Justice For All, which they rarely ever pull out. They definitely keep it interesting live.

 

[TheLongshot]

I'm actually surprised they don't. They seem like one band that would do that.

Given they depend a lot on video screens and triggers, there probably is a lot going on to include different songs. Their show is a well-oiled machine, with not a lot of room for variation.

The last tour they did alternate songs between venues, so it wasn't the same setlist every night.

 

[nomisofsiman]

Given they depend a lot on video screens and triggers, there probably is a lot going on to include different songs. Their show is a well-oiled machine, with not a lot of room for variation.

Good point. Didn't think about that part of it. Man though, it would be awesome if they did a tour more stripped down and mixed things up.

 

[Jasonic]

While Metallica doesn't completely do set overhauls every night, they DEFINITELY change their sets nightly on tour and do alot of interesting things. I'm not sure where you're assuming otherwise. They JUST did a Black Album only tour last year where they played the entire s/t from front to back for the 20th anniversary. When I saw them years ago, they played Disposable Heroes for the first time in like 15 years. Saw them again on the Death Magnetic tour in 2008/9 and they played the title track off And Justice For All, which they rarely ever pull out. They definitely keep it interesting live.

Ok, let me put it another way.....
I would love to see Metallica do a FULL tour where they DON'T play the following:
- MoP
- S&D
- Sandman
- Sad But True
- One

You get the idea.
There are probably at least 5 to 8 staple songs they have played at almost every show. I don't care about their one offs where they performed an album in its entirety.

You know what I mean. Yes, they have done some unique things live, even in the 90s and their Millenium era (Where they were mixing in No Leaf Clover and various Garage Inc songs).

What I am speaking of is a true NON-GIMMICK (IE - covers, playing an album in full, etc), 2 night stand of Metallica not repeating a song (Ala Phish and Dead).

They certainly have the material for it.
I just wish they would get over the fact that they DON'T have to play their top 5 best selling singles.

Playing Devil's Advocate, there is always someone at every show who has never seen METALLICA and would go home disappointed not hearing the staples.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

I see your point for sure. On the other hand though, I do feel like alot of people pay good money to see those songs get played. Like, I know one of the reasons why I refuse to see Maiden live is because their sets are generally new material heavy and they are very much against playing the classics. At the end of the day, you are an entertainer and you are supposed to be entertaining right? It's not called a "show" for nothing. But that's just me, and I'm sure alot of people think otherwise!

 

[nomisofsiman]

I see your point for sure. On the other hand though, I do feel like alot of people pay good money to see those songs get played. Like, I know one of the reasons why I refuse to see Maiden live is because their sets are generally new material heavy and they are very much against playing the classics. At the end of the day, you are an entertainer and you are supposed to be entertaining right? It's not called a "show" for nothing. But that's just me, and I'm sure alot of people think otherwise!

The Maiden thing seems to switch on and off though. When they came out with the last album, yes it was heavily on newer stuff, but now they're doing Maiden England which is heavy on the old. My gripe with Maiden is on a specific tour it is the EXACT SAME setlist every single night.