The Fans Deserve Better

[Nuno Filipe]

Well, since glenn did not post this here, here it goes. Once more, slapping the truth "in your face" ahah Awesome.

 

[indecizo]

Wow. That's 9 minutes of saying "I don't like this".

 

[UncleBob]

Half true.

To me bands like Asking Alexandria et al are pretty much just pop music, how you dress up that pop music is almost irrelevant (heavy guitars + growling or synths + female vocals & a rapper etc etc), so it makes sense they'd use standard pop production techniques.

I saw a video of Asking Alexandria and live they actually sound more like just a heavy band, with the real drumming, heavy live guitars and the singer just singing, nothing like the shitty "pop-metal" stuff.

Likewise if you watch the making of Bohemian Rhapsody those guys were so tight and in tune that the song probably would've sounded almost exactly the same either way, they were the machines.

All valid points in the video but I blame shitty music on shitty music/musicians....fixed or not most of the stuff still sucks in spite of it, not because of it.

 

[indecizo]

Pretty much.

 

[Nuno Filipe]

All valid points in the video but I blame shitty music on shitty music/musicians....fixed or not most of the stuff still sucks in spite of it, not because of it.

Maybe I´m missing something but he didnt said that the editing/processing/simulation is a direct consequence of decaying quality in music.

What I understand is that, the essential, the heart, the feeling, the mistakes, are natural and not the tightness and inflexibility of the edition process and IMO he is correct. Nowadays is like a standard rule for this area, everything is processed to sound perfect.

 

[UncleBob]

That's pretty much what I mean, if the "thing" isn't there to begin with, you can edit and tune and tweak to perfection all you want and the song/music is still going to be shit.

So, basically, great music tweaked to perfection = great music
shitty music tweaked to perfection = still shitty music

So for me, the tweaking to perfection doesn't really have much to do with music being shitty or not, in fact in some cases, like the Asking Alexandria live video I saw, the tweaking to perfection could otherwise be making half decent bands actually come across shittier in which case I pretty much just took a dump all over everything else I wrote and completely agree with the video 100%

 

[JeffTD]

There was a long anti-this circle jerk on facebook so I won't say anything other than this: The fans absolutely do not deserve better.

 

[Flow Of Time]

The fans absolutely do not deserve better.

This…

 

[updog]

Actually, I read that particularly the bass drum parts on AJFA involved a lot of cutting, which means Ulrich couldn't ever really play them correctly.

Problem was, back then it was actually physical cutting, and must have been the most tedious thing anybody has done, anywhere, ever.

 

[updog]

There was a long anti-this circle jerk on facebook so I won't say anything other than this: The fans absolutely do not deserve better.

Sounds entertaining. Can we get a link?

 

[nezvers]

Even I mostly kinda agree to Glen, but I think it's not a crime to have song sounding just like I want. I'm lone wolf "musician" for some time already and I play only guitar, I can't afford to hire bad ass drummer, or bass guitarist, or top notch vocalist. Because of that I'll use drum programming, edit bass guitar track because my bass playing skills sucks, and ask friend who sings better than me to sing it... well since he's just sing better than me doesn't men he sing 100% like I'd like it, I have to edit that too.
Fans deserve good music, that sound like MUSICIAN intended.

 

[Mago]

There was a long anti-this circle jerk on facebook so I won't say anything other than this: The fans absolutely do not deserve better.

"fans"

 

[schwinginbatman]

Even I mostly kinda agree to Glen, but I think it's not a crime to have song sounding just like I want. I'm lone wolf "musician" for some time already and I play only guitar, I can't afford to hire bad ass drummer, or bass guitarist, or top notch vocalist. Because of that I'll use drum programming, edit bass guitar track because my bass playing skills sucks, and ask friend who sings better than me to sing it... well since he's just sing better than me doesn't men he sing 100% like I'd like it, I have to edit that too.
Fans deserve good music, that sound like MUSICIAN intended.

He did exempt amateur and bedroom musicians. He's saying that if you're going into a studio, doing the whole pro thing, you need to do it for real, because giving the "fans" something that isn't real does them a disservice.

 

[nezvers]

He did exempt amateur and bedroom musicians. He's saying that if you're going into a studio, doing the whole pro thing, you need to do it for real, because giving the "fans" something that isn't real does them a disservice.

Oh, in that case I agree 100% If you go full pro album than it's slacking and bullshitting. Even I'm slowly building my "bedroom studio" into "studio at home" so I could offer something pro level to bands and myself.

 

[Alphanumeric]

Watching this is like reading the lambgoat comment section. You would think a producer would have more restraint and insight than your average "modern metal is lame FAG music and FAKE not real like Iron Maiden and Pantera" meathead.

Essentially saying all big name producers/releases suck?

Who is this guy.

 

[~BURNY~]

Well I use melodyne and audio quantization and sound replacement, not always but pretty often and I mostly agree with Glenn. No need to get all butt-hurt, it's satire and it raises very valid points. I've grown to hate 95% of the current "modern" metal production because of this shit and I acknowledge my tiny irrelevant share of responsibility.
But in the end, people get the music they deserve imo.

 

[Flow Of Time]

Essentially saying all big name producers/releases suck?

Who is this guy.

This isn't what he was saying at all... He said that techniques like autotune destroy music. And that a lot of music, where this stuff is used sucks.

 

[Ermz]

With the way some are reacting to this, you would think we got into this industry with the dream of fixing sub par performances. What Glenn appears to fundamentally be saying is that we've come to a point where musical ability has declined because of this reliance on editing. Artists that have no business being in a studio are putting out records. I agree with this. I imagine you would be hard pressed to find any audio professional, who does this job day in and out for a living, to disagree. You generally get into this business to nurture creativity, to help an artist bring their vision to life. If they're stumbling all over themselves in the studio, you're recording takes two seconds at a time and then slipping and tuning after every block, that's one of the prime joys of the process gone.

Being an avid fan of electronic music, I get that there is a time and place for hyper-reality. Primarily, when you've tracked an amazing musician and you're hoping to marry their performance to synths, or other grid-locked elements. When editing is done to further a creative desire as opposed to simply pushing through horrible performances, it becomes a great tool. That angle might be something Glenn overlooked in his video, as the primary focus seemed to be on band-based music.

As far as the fans deserving anything... I don't know about that. If we're talking about the same people who rip albums off the net like there's no tomorrow, then you'd be hard pressed to prove that the artist owes them anything. The market is what it is. If shitty autotuned synth-pop is the flavor of the month, and that sells and pulls crowds, then by market logic the fans are dictating that they want more of it - hence, entirely deserving.

 

[Nebulous]

Finally, a straight up the middle point is made to dismiss the obnoxious comments on both sides.
/ end thread!

With the way some are reacting to this, you would think we got into this industry with the dream of fixing sub par performances. What Glenn appears to fundamentally be saying is that we've come to a point where musical ability has declined because of this reliance on editing. Artists that have no business being in a studio are putting out records. I agree with this. I imagine you would be hard pressed to find any audio professional, who does this job day in and out for a living, to disagree. You generally get into this business to nurture creativity, to help an artist bring their vision to life. If they're stumbling all over themselves in the studio, you're recording takes two seconds at a time and then slipping and tuning after every block, that's one of the prime joys of the process gone.

Being an avid fan of electronic music, I get that there is a time and place for hyper-reality. Primarily, when you've tracked an amazing musician and you're hoping to marry their performance to synths, or other grid-locked elements. When editing is done to further a creative desire as opposed to simply pushing through horrible performances, it becomes a great tool. That angle might be something Glenn overlooked in his video, as the primary focus seemed to be on band-based music.

As far as the fans deserving anything... I don't know about that. If we're talking about the same people who rip albums off the net like there's no tomorrow, then you'd be hard pressed to prove that the artist owes them anything. The market is what it is. If shitty autotuned synth-pop is the flavor of the month, and that sells and pulls crowds, then by market logic the fans are dictating that they want more of it - hence, entirely deserving.

 

[varobinson]

re: the OP's video link. One could make the case the fans are getting exactly what they want and just what they deserve. Most mainstream 'fans' probably won't care (people like my wife) what goes into or how it's made as long as they like the hooks or jingles in the song. Its just the manufactured musical experience they get or don't get. Probably why many don't mind downloading it without paying for it.

Seems like auto-tuned singers in pop music can do just fine financially.

I guess that's not profound really, just a modest devils advocate point.