The Great American Gun Fetish

[Einherjar86]

He's as much fringe as the fringe right-wing in America.

I'm not really sure how to measure this equivalence (i.e. that Sanders is "as much fringe" as right-wing fringe), but I'm not convinced that the degree is the same on both sides. The fringe-right is Alex Jones, whose show attracts an obscene number of listeners and (mis)informs a significant portion of the right-wing constituency. If we're talking democratic versus conservative policies, I think that Sanders is far less radical/fringe than someone like Jones.

There certainly are radical left-wing factions in this country; but as BO suggested, I don't think they're as widely distributed or broadcast on social media, and I don't think they inform a significant portion of left-wing constituency (and I realize that talking about right- and left-wing constituency is a vague rhetorical move, but I hesitate to get more specific).

 

[viewerfromnihil]

He's as much fringe as the fringe right-wing in America.

Yes, because there is an equivalency between wanting to reduce the size of the federal government to its pre-FDR form and supplying higher education and health care to every citizen. I'll give you this: in the vacuum of American politics, Bernie is pretty fringe, but in other countries, he's a moderate. The American media like to joke of Corbyn being the Brit Bernie or Mélenchon as the French Bernie, but both of these guys, particularly Mélenchon, are far left of Bernie. Meanwhile, the right in America has free run to spout whatever radical views they wish in this country, and they're simply shrugged off until they find their way into congress. If not for the racism, the Freedom Caucus make Alternativ für Deutschland and Front National look moderate.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I'm not really sure how to measure this equivalence (i.e. that Sanders is "as much fringe" as right-wing fringe), but I'm not convinced that the degree is the same on both sides. The fringe-right is Alex Jones, whose show attracts an obscene number of listeners and (mis)informs a significant portion of the right-wing constituency. If we're talking democratic versus conservative policies, I think that Sanders is far less radical/fringe than someone like Jones.

There certainly are radical left-wing factions in this country; but as BO suggested, I don't think they're as widely distributed or broadcast on social media, and I don't think they inform a significant portion of left-wing constituency (and I realize that talking about right- and left-wing constituency is a vague rhetorical move, but I hesitate to get more specific).

Yes, because there is an equivalency between wanting to reduce the size of the federal government to its pre-FDR form and supplying higher education and health care to every citizen. I'll give you this: in the vacuum of American politics, Bernie is pretty fringe, but in other countries, he's a moderate. The American media like to joke of Corbyn being the Brit Bernie or Mélenchon as the French Bernie, but both of these guys, particularly Mélenchon, are far left of Bernie. Meanwhile, the right in America has free run to spout whatever radical views they wish in this country, and they're simply shrugged off until they find their way into congress. If not for the racism, the Freedom Caucus make Alternativ für Deutschland and Front National look moderate.

fwiw the "media outlet" part of your original post totally went by me, I was thinking purely political leadership, my bad. I'll acknowledge that for whatever reason, the far right tends to dominate independent media, YouTube types, etc whereas the left largely survives through milquetoast, partisan soft-left television. I'll also admit that many Democrats aren't really that left-wing but instead centrist statists that use left-wing messages to pander for votes and the marriage of business and government to consolidate power. Socially-speaking, they're hardly even liberals.

Pre-FDR sized government sounds like the right direction to me. He was arguably the most leftist president in American history, during possibly the most extreme-left period in world history. As a percentage of GDP federal spending in the USA has doubled since FDR thanks in part to exploding Medicare costs, old useless fucks sucking down trillions between healthcare and pensions. Sanders has stated he's fine with 90% tax rates at the top margin, he admired communist despots from Latin America, he wanted the USA to have the highest minimum wage in the world (when factoring cost of living), and made an entire campaign based on promising free shit and attacking billion-ahs. He got away with stuff that a Trudeau would have been lambasted for (or was, in the case of praising Castro (something I don't personally consider a bad thing, but is certainly fringe)).

Many of those leftist European nations are faltering btw, particularly the UK and France. France is one of the most left-wing countries in the world. On the other side, Southeast Asia is largely booming thanks to their embrace of low-regulation capitalism. For example, where South Korea is to the left of the USA on healthcare, they're to the right in most other ways, with significantly less government spending than the rest of OCED, minimal retirement/pension programs, and their welfare system is much more strict. That doesn't even get into the capitalist wonderland of much of China and how they've maintained the fastest growing middle class for years despite having few government protections for it.

Racism and leftism are hardly inherently opposed btw. Hitler loved public services for the volk.

 

[UltimateApathy]

No gun discussion would be complete without a good old listen to that epic classic of the ages, "Cold Dead Hand":



"Some folks ride like the wind
With the whispering pines to guide them
And the burning light inside them
Keeps them warm in the snow

Others fear the sounds they hear
Make bandito's out of mole-hills
Fill their hearts with porcupine quills
They’re dead and buried long before they go

Charlton Heston movies are no longer in demand
His immortal soul my lay forever in the sand
The angels wouldn’t take him up to heaven like he planned
‘Cause they couldn’t pry that gun from his cold dead hand

It takes a cold dead hand to decide to pull the trigger
It takes a cold dead heart and as near as I can figure
With your cold dead aim you’re trying to prove your dick is bigger
But we know your chariot may not be swinging low

Cold dead hand - cold dead hand
Cold dead hand - cold dead hand
You’re a big big man with an little bitty gland
So you need something bigger just to fill
Your cold dead hand

Imagine if the lord were here
And he knew what you’ve been thinkin’
Would his sacred heart be sinkin’
Into the canyon of dismay

And on the ones who sell the guns
He’d sick the vultures and coyotes
Only the devil’s true devotees
Could profiteer from pain and fear

Charlton Heston movies are no longer in demand
His immortal soul my lay forever in the sand
The angels wouldn’t take him up to heaven like he planned
‘Cause they couldn’t pry that gun from his cold dead hand

It takes a cold dead hand to decide to pull the trigger
It takes a cold dead heart and as near as I can figure
With your cold dead aim you’re trying to prove your junk is bigger
But we know your chariot may not be swinging low

Cold dead hand - cold dead hand
Cold dead hand - cold dead hand
Cold dead hand - cold dead hand
You’re a big big man with an little bitty gland
So you need something bigger with a hair-pin trigger
You don’t want to get caught with your trousers down
When the psycho killer comes around
So you make your home like a thunderdome
And you’re always packin’ everywhere you roam
But the psycho’s win no matter what you do
‘Cause they’re gonna buy way more guns than you

And while you’re stumbling out of bed
They put five rounds in the back of your head
Or you get depressed ‘cause the money runs out
Then you put your own shotgun in your mouth
And your kids walk in and they find you there
Like a headless stump in your underwear
And they move the gun and it kills them too
And your wife just doesn’t know what to do
But she takes a hand grenade from her shoe
And she pulls the pin...

And it’s all on you
And your cold dead hand"

 

[CiG]

Ladies and gentlemen, Jim Carrey the anti-vaccine Christian.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea are gun-free utopias.

This just reminded me:

List of countries by suicide rate (WHO, 2015):
#10 South Korea
#26 Japan
#48 United States

Using the Taiwan govt's figure, Taiwan would rank #30 up there.

South Koreans work an average of 2069 hours per year, versus 1783 for Americans - and the average American makes 50% more income. I've heard stories from Korean Americans about many Koreans needing sleeping pills to survive the work week, or sleeping at the office because the hours are so long there's no time to commute and still get enough sleep. It's damn near slavery.

Japan has work hours comparable to the US, but maternity leave is almost nonexistent, and women are often denied jobs if they have children or are pregnant. Between that, xenophobia, and the rampant sexual repression induced by the gaming-and-porn culture, Japan's fertility rate is so low that it's slowly bankrupting the country.

US isn't the best place to live, but calling those other places utopias is retarded.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I don't think they're as widely distributed

I'm sorry, but what planet do you live on?

@Black Orifice: "but in other countries, hes a moderate". And what the fuck does that mean here? American politics is not European or Canadian politics.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

This just reminded me:

Using the Taiwan govt's figure, Taiwan would rank #30 up there.

South Koreans also work an average of 2069 hours per year, versus 1783 for Americans - and the average American makes 50% more income. I've heard stories from Korean Americans about many Koreans needing sleeping pills to survive the work week, or sleeping at the office because the hours are so long there's no time to commute and still get enough sleep. It's damn near slavery.

Japan has work hours comparable to the US, but maternity leave is almost nonexistent, and women are often denied jobs if they have children or are pregnant. Between that, xenophobia, and the extreme levels of sexual repression induced by video games and porn, Japan's fertility rate is so low that it's bankrupting the country.

US isn't the best place to live, but calling those other countries utopias is retarded.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time

South Korea was a developing nation just 30 years ago. Shit takes time. Obviously a degenerate European nation resting on the wealth of centuries of imperialism is going to be a nicer place to live.

Japan's retarded pension system and longest-living elderly population is bankrupting country, not a lack of young people. Any economy predicated on infinite population growth will eventually collapse. Also, Japan is more like the opposite of sexually repressed. Just because people don't have sex doesn't make them sexually repressed. It's the opposite, with preferable alternatives for both men (porn) and women (polyamory) that make traditional sexual arrangements pointless.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Japan's retarded pension system and longest-living elderly population is bankrupting country, not a lack of young people.

They're all factors - it's not either/or. Japan's low fertility rate is causing the population to shrink, which means shrinking GDP, a shrinking tax base, and mounting government debt. Japan has one of the highest debt-to-GDPs in the world, it makes the US debt look like a joke.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

They're all factors - it's not either/or. Japan's low fertility rate is causing the population to shrink, which means shrinking GDP, a shrinking tax base, and mounting debt from deficit spending. Japan has one of the highest debt-to-GDPs in the world, it makes the US debt look like a joke.

A nation can survive (thrive in fact) without half of its government spending being put into old people and the interest on debt of paying said old people. A nation cannot grow indefinitely, particularly not when it is already extremely centralized and populated within the largest metropolis in the world. A bullet to the heart kills a person, not the absence of a bulletproof vest.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Also, Japan is more like the opposite of sexually repressed. Just because people don't have sex doesn't make them sexually repressed. It's the opposite, with preferable alternatives for both men (porn) and women (polyamory) that make traditional sexual arrangements pointless.

Hahahaha... no.

In sexless Japan, almost half of single young men and women are virgins

“They want to tie the knot eventually. But they tend to put it off as they have gaps between their ideals and the reality”

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Hahahaha... no.

In sexless Japan, almost half of single young men and women are virgins

I'm aware, but that's still not repression. You can live in Japan and fuck dolls made to look like 8 year olds while watching tentacle rape hentai. No one in Japan is going around campaigning "Human sexuality is bad". Where repression thrives, places dominated by Abrahamic religions particularly, so do sex and reproduction.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I'm aware, but that's still not repression. You can live in Japan and fuck dolls made to look like 8 year olds while watching tentacle rape hentai.

You underestimate the effects of the isolation involved in such a culture:

Why does Japan have such a high suicide rate?

"Isolation is the number one precursor for depression and suicide," says Wataru Nishida, a psychologist at Tokyo's Temple University.

...

Technology may be making things worse, increasing young people's isolation. Japan is famous for a condition called hikikomori, a type of acute social withdrawal.

The Japanese Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare defines hikikomori as people who refuse to leave their house and isolate themselves from society in their homes for a period exceeding six months.

According to government figures released in 2010, there are 700,000 individuals living as hikikomori with an average age of 31.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I don't consider isolation to be a form of repression either. If your point of contention is that you thought I was saying that Japan's lack of sex is primarily/purely because of sexual liberalism, then I understand your issue and want to clarify. Obviously the stressful working conditions of Japanese employees and isolation within a large, anonymous city will be the main factors that reduce sexuality. Sexual repression, meaning the action of consciously attempting to reduce or regulate sexuality, is not a big thing in Japan though. In many modern-ish societies and cultures, communities play a role in sexuality both by shaming/punishing it out of wedlock while simultaneously attempting to guarantee it through marriage, which could often be arranged by the parents. That's a form of sexual repression in that it does not maximize sexual freedom, yet not everyone that has sexual freedom chooses to have sex with it. Many people are happy to get by fapping to control their biological urges and then spend their time on other things.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I don't consider isolation to be a form of repression either.

Of course YOU wouldn't

Perhaps I was using the term "repression" loosely, but I still think it appropriately references a psychologically limiting self-esteem issue which doesn't need to be forcefully imposed on someone to be experienced as a symptom of the Japanese culture we're discussing. My point is that on average it's not healthy for people to be living in that kind of culture, and I believe statistics like the suicide rate and "hikikomori" rate support my point.

 

[UltimateApathy]

As far as public safety and violent crime goes, Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan are utopias. Try again, kids.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

... but didnt some guy shoot a Japanese mayor right in the back of the head just a few years ago?

 

[UltimateApathy]

Don't numerous people get shot in the U.S. every single day? Haha, nice try, son.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

of course they do, babygirl. But i'm not claiming the U.S. is some kind of "crime free utopia". You on the other hand, well...

 

[CiG]

How does a top rank politician in Japan get shot in the head when it is a gun-free utopia? Oh that's right because organized crime runs Japan.

Also, most "utopian" Asian countries seem to have immigration policies to the right of Donald Trump. Awkward for some toe-licking Democrat like @UltimateApathy I'm sure.