The 'hard' snare sound

[Scott Carter]

Hi,

Top forum.

I have been trying to achieve a 'harder' snare sound in my mixes - 'hard' in the sense of the Michael Stavrou definition - a firm, solid, penetrating sound. It's an analogy, but I think of a 'hard' snare as having a 'hard' feel, like a rock sitting in the middle of the mix. When I listen to Archenemy's 'Wages of Sin' and Opeth's "Still Life', I hear this hard snare sound - texturely, it comes out of the mix more solidly and pentrating then the other elements. This is particularly apparent on poor monitoring systems, e.g. when a friend played WOS through his television, the snare still retained its firmness, while other parts of the mix became more homgenous and two-dimensional. In comparison, the snare sounds I am currently achieving lack this solidarity and firmness - on poor speaker systems, the mix elements all take on all the same texture giving it a flat, lifeless feel.

I think I am referening to the texture rather that the tonality (EQ) or dynamic components of the snare (e.g. crack, pop, punch etc...) although these elements probably play an importnat role in shaping the sound I am after. I am actually reasonably happy with the way the snare is balanced in the mix. It is more a question of it taking on a harder texture than the other elements.
When I hear AS stuff like WOS, this is how I think of the snare.

Is anyone aware of how is this sound/effect actually achieved? To date I have been miking snares with a single SM 57 on top. 57 usually goes into a Universal Audio M610 pre, Avalon 2022 or Focusrite Green Pre. Conversion is Universal Audio 2192. The closest I have come is using UAD plugs (1081 -> 1176).

I though I'd throw this one out there as I haven't achieved the sound I am after and not sure which part(s) of the signal chain are responsible: Snare itself, mic, pre, EQ and compression, envelope processors such as transX or transient designer, use of triggers, mastering...??? I'm sure the relative softness/hardness of other elements in the mix contribute to the effect.

For me, snare drum is God - in most of the stuff I mix it gives the down beat and contributes a greater sense of nuance and power than the kick (which I trigger anyway). Hence the question...

Thanks in advance,

Scott

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

For me personally I ALWAYS look at the source first.

And I hate to ask such a kindergarden question but, do you remember to flip the phase of the bottom mic? I only aks because it was probably 6 months before I learned this .

EDIT: Actually nevermind with the preamps you have I doubt you don't know about the above.

 

[Student]

Try sidechaining some white noise, I know it sounds wierd, but just a pinch, mixed in just right, minute EQ, man...checkout the other snare threads, they're helpful as hell.

 

[Ermz]

Phase is a big issue with snares. You need to make sure that your OHs and Room mics aren't taking away the bottom end. Plus you need to mic the snare in a way to catch all the body you can, and try minimize those damn hats! If you want penetrating in a sense of the WOS (which I believe is a very thin, woodblock-type sound) you need to be aiming for a thinner wooden snare and not tune it too low. The smaller the snare usually the snappier, louder, and more 'cracking' it tends to be. Compression after the fact emphasizes the way it sits in, or pops out of the mix.

I personally love lower tuned snares, as I like them to have a significant bass element, and then just use compression and EQ after the fact to create synthetic 'crack'.

 

[Sly]

The snare itself is very important, die-cast hoops and rimshoting drummer...
Room mics are very important there, they should catch all the natural and projection from the drums in the room (so the drums in the room need to sound at least good). Use good mics at the good places, and be careful with phase relationship with the snare proximity mics. Try to capture less cymbals as possible.
The overheads need to be well balanced and have to capture a natural snare sound, stereo wise and sound wise. Cut them during the mix where the low end of the snare begins. I generally never EQ them if I used a good pre and good mics.
Then a bit of "substracting" EQ, then compression, and finally "adding" EQ to the close mics. Try some distorsion on the bottom mic will make it dirtier and more cutting in the mix (not too much please).
Try some transient designing on the room mics (diminishing the transients by removing some attack, and add sustain will make your room to sound a lot better), or typical crushing compression generally works good too.
Then send the top snare mic to a good reverb (which I find is hard to find when mixing ITB).
If you work OTB, try some parallel compression and parallel EQ (toms/snare/room mics), you have 10000 possibilities here to achieve 10000 different results.

 

[Keessi]

Try a transient modulator/designer! it boosts the transient of the snare quite nicely. I just did a mix where I tried that and OMG it fucking popped out in the mix and gave it a lot more punch. I'll post that mix later this month...

 

[scorpio01169]

Like said above, a drummer who can rimshot the hell outa the snare helps a lot and a great mix between the top and bottom mics

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

If you work OTB, try some parallel compression and parallel EQ (toms/snare/room mics),

Yeah, I can't tell you how much this has helped my toms, snare, and kick.

Recently, I even got a really cool snare sound by bussing the snare TOP highs to a compressor to add a high frequency "tick, tick". Then, I used HP and LP Eq to cut out everything but the low mids on the snare BOTTOM MIC and compressed the hell out of that to get lower frequency punch.