is a total non-starter for me. I mean, I just really don't care, and feel like there's way more legitimate things to give Bush shit over. Anybody else?
The issue of Bush as AWOL dodger
- Thread starter FalseTodd
- Start date
minxnim
meow
my dad has a bumper sticker now that says 'i went to vietnam in george bush's place'
does that answer your question?
does that answer your question?
avi
W3RK3R
I started to care and then stopped to think about it and realized I could really give a fuck. I'm more concerned he got a free ride through college b/c of his connections than with military service.
minxnim
meow
i wouldnt care except that he sends other people to war. that's the really annoying part. it's easy to start wars when you don't get your legs mangled previously in one like my dad did.
Preppy: As to how I feel about him personally it makes a difference. As to the presidential race, I think the things he's done actively in office are plenty heinous to fill all the attack ads you'd ever need.
FuSoYa
Lunarian
Yeah I think his being AWOL says a lot more than just "he didn't show up" simply because of his self-made role as "war president."
minxnim
meow
yea i don't think it's his worst offense, but i think it appeals greatly to people who know other people in military service, to realize he thinks he's better than them.
xfer
I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
Sam, I agree. In fact, I don't think it should be focused on because I think there's maybe a 65% chance it's true, but a 35% chance it's not. Better to let it hover there as a vague and not unjust smear than to stake the Presidential race on it and having a 35% chance of torpedoing your credibility entirely.
xfer
I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
I also don't agree, in general, with the "chicken hawk" attack that's being launched at Bush and his cronies (several times in this thread, in fact, in more words). I think it's extremely dangerous to perpetuate the attitude that a President can't commit troops to combat without having been in a war/the military himself. If America accepts that attitude, it's a first (and significant) step toward living in a country where you can only get elected and run it if you have a military record--that is, conscientious objectors to war and the military in general, or even people not gung-ho enough about them to join the military, will be permanently barred from elected office.
lizard
Member
i agree with prep because my dad went to Nam and got his own purple heart ... no family influence to vault himself over a waiting list of hundredß....
it wouldn't be so bad if he didn't strut about in unit jackets and flight suits like he was some kind of badass warrior when in fact he's a wannabe. that tells me he's inherently fake and hollow.
I've worked my entire adult life for the dept of defense and I've met lots of men who have given so much without trying to cop some bullshit attitude...and then endangering his own people for which increasingly being rrevealed as for corporate reasons.
it wouldn't be so bad if he didn't strut about in unit jackets and flight suits like he was some kind of badass warrior when in fact he's a wannabe. that tells me he's inherently fake and hollow.
I've worked my entire adult life for the dept of defense and I've met lots of men who have given so much without trying to cop some bullshit attitude...and then endangering his own people for which increasingly being rrevealed as for corporate reasons.
minxnim
meow
alex: that's not the point. the point isn't whether they were in war or not, it's that everyone was getting drafted and they weaseled out, without so much as a word sticking up for those other people getting drafted. that's the point. more than anything. and also, the president is the head of the military so i dont think it's totally ridiculous to think they'd KNOW something about it, and at least not have lied to avoid it.
minxnim
meow
it's weird i was just writing this huge long lj about my dad in veitnam and how sick he is now and stuff and i realized i couldnt get myself to write it this morning. TOTAL DOWNER.
xfer
I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
right, yes, i agree, amanda--that's why I'm trying to confine my criticism to that issue ("He weaseled out!") rather than say "How dare he send troops into combat when he weaseled out!" He is suitably condemned and shamed without tacking on that troublesome first part.
(And by "weaseled out" I specifically mean the situation of being very pro-war but sneaking out and letting others do the fighting. people who refused to go to war for moral, not cowardly, reasons did not "weasel out").
(And by "weaseled out" I specifically mean the situation of being very pro-war but sneaking out and letting others do the fighting. people who refused to go to war for moral, not cowardly, reasons did not "weasel out").
lizard
Member
lizard
Member
you should do it as a tribute to your dad, prep. I know my dad was wounded and watched friends die and killed people and the scars that must put on a person's soul are sometimes more than I want to contemplate. it would be nice if war wasn't necessary but when it is, the people who put their freakin cojones on the line are real heroes.
minxnim
meow
i definitely think a civilian can be a good president. if they're not a total weasel. clinton was a freakin weasel too the bastard.
minxnim
meow
mindspell
vvv Jake's ass vvv
xfer
I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
i guess, lizard, but when the greatest heroes of all time are assembled at the end of history, I don't think any war heroes are going to be in the top ten percent.
minxnim
meow
my dad doesn't really consider himself a hero. he considers himself a victim of a shitty b.s. government (who by the way denies he was injured in the war b/c he was somewhere they weren't supposed to be). he also got orders to kill kids and women. and did bad stuff. and hated it. and the vietnam war had no purpose. so he's pretty bitter about it.
