The War in Iraq....The horror.....

[Soilworker]

i have no problem with killing muslims as they turn people away from the true path of jesus.

i hope all muslims die and go to hell.

 

[Xorv]

I agree, this is a guerilla war, but a new breed of it. Nothing in History comes close to what we're facing in Iraq right now. The kamakazie japs of ww2 comes close, but atleast you can shot down the plane before it hits. If anything we should discover who is funding this terror and go straight to the source. Cut the head of the giant.

 

[judas69]

i have no problem with killing muslims as they turn people away from the true path of jesus.

i hope all muslims die and go to hell.

The path of Jesus is grounded on the acceptance of all people; I'm afraid calling for the death and damnation of all Muslims is walking your own path.

A side thought, the Muslim religion is almost exactly contrary to Christianity ..almost as if they were origionally organized for conflict ..sort of interesting.

 

[derek]

I agree, this is a guerilla war, but a new breed of it. Nothing in History comes close to what we're facing in Iraq right now. The kamakazie japs of ww2 comes close, but atleast you can shot down the plane before it hits. If anything we should discover who is funding this terror and go straight to the source. Cut the head of the giant.

Hmmm.

I think to see it like that is to oversimplify. Once you eradicate the assumption that West = Good and Anything Remotely East = Bad, it becomes a whole new ball game.

There is a point where the real issues become shrouded in useless progaganda, on both sides.

For America and us over here in the U.K, we've been told it's to secure the freedom and security of both us and those poor defenceless coloured folks. Over there, people are brainwashed into believing the Western way of life is base, sickening and an insult to the Muslim faith.

Looking behind the curtains, and to the main players, it's about money and power. It's always about money and power.

 

[derek]

The path of Jesus is grounded on the acceptance of all people; I'm afraid calling for the death and damnation of all Muslims is walking your own path.

A side thought, the Muslim religion is almost exactly contrary to Christianity ..almost as if they were origionally organized for conflict ..sort of interesting.

On the grand scale of Planet Earth, the little fracas these two belligerent children are having is but one of many. It's seems primary at the time, but in a few thousand years God truly will be dead and we'll all giggle at the folly of the crusades and every quibble since.

 

[SoundMaster]

On the grand scale of Planet Earth, the little fracas these two belligerent children are having is but one of many. It's seems primary at the time, but in a few thousand years God truly will be dead and we'll all giggle at the folly of the crusades and every quibble since.

Probably so. Hopefully so, at least.

Much like the way most scoff at the idea of the ancients worshipping Zeus or Mars, I do think the folks of the future will joke about the ancients and their odd worship of the monster known as "allah" or "yahweh".

 

[OldScratch]

Even if we adopted a WWII type "the hell with popular sentiment" mentality and flexed more muscle, how would it help? The conventional army was destroyed at the onset of the invasion. They're not who we're fighting. It's a guerilla war. And if we employ a rampage of indiscriminate killing, we'll only increase the number of people rushing to join the insurgents.

Again, our experience in Vietnam and the Russian's experience in Afghan more or less prove that this type of guerilla warfare is quite hard - if not impossible - to defeat.

The current state of Iraq has less to do with some reporters than it does with the fact that we're not fighting a conventional army.

That was my point actually. We are or have been attempting to fight a largely conventional war, albeit with a vastly different attitude toward civilian casualities(so-called collateral damage)when compared to WW2. We are also fighting an enemy that essentially has a "nothing to lose" mind-set - whereas our soldiers want to go home to their families, wives, etc. It's tough to really know just how long this will go on over there, as it is difficult to get a straight answer on the enemy itself - who they are, how many they are, who is assisting them, etc. I don't envy the Commanders as they are left to wage a rather ill-conceived war, when considering the lessons of Military history(ie Nam, Afghanistan, etc. as noted).

 

[Xorv]

and why exactly do you say God will be dead in 1000 years?

 

[The Devil's Steed]

The path of Jesus is grounded on the acceptance of all people; I'm afraid calling for the death and damnation of all Muslims is walking your own path.

A side thought, the Muslim religion is almost exactly contrary to Christianity ..almost as if they were origionally organized for conflict ..sort of interesting.

I think you'll be better off not feeding the troll. Or the moron, whichever it is (of course, the two aren't mutually exclusive). For that matter, Jesus was also interested in genocide when it came to groups of people who refused to believe, not just the god of the Old Testament.

 

[BloodSword]

Hmmm.

I think to see it like that is to oversimplify. Once you eradicate the assumption that West = Good and Anything Remotely East = Bad, it becomes a whole new ball game.

There is a point where the real issues become shrouded in useless progaganda, on both sides.

For America and us over here in the U.K, we've been told it's to secure the freedom and security of both us and those poor defenceless coloured folks. Over there, people are brainwashed into believing the Western way of life is base, sickening and an insult to the Muslim faith.

Looking behind the curtains, and to the main players, it's about money and power. It's always about money and power.

Agreed. There was a report here in the US, where a well respected jounalist( Helen something or other) said " before Bush took one step into the Oval office, his agenda was to destroy Hussein." As with most of his ideas and policies, Bush does not look at the big picture. We are there for the duration. The Bush administration is awash with miscalculations and underestimating the insurgents. This may seem to some an oversimplification. Be that as it may, nothing will change until this "Bonehead" is out of office. And the next President will certainly have his hands full.

 

[speed]

Probably so. Hopefully so, at least.

Much like the way most scoff at the idea of the ancients worshipping Zeus or Mars, I do think the folks of the future will joke about the ancients and their odd worship of the monster known as "allah" or "yahweh".

I wish we were worshipping Zeus or Mars. Its no different than hinduism--in fact, i dont really believe most of the ancients really had any true belief in the divinity of these gods you know. They were essentially just superhumans, and provided a healthier symbolic and psychological system than we have today; a system that provided guidiance if you will. Only the primitive village people, who had a different set of gods anyway, truly ever believed. Obviously, Evola and Joseph Campbell have much to say about this.

Furthermore, one would think these religions that are thousands of years old would die out. But they've been pretty good at adapting--or people have adapted their beliefs to suit the religion.

 

[derek]

I wish we were worshipping Zeus or Mars. Its no different than hinduism--in fact, i dont really believe most of the ancients really had any true belief in the divinity of these gods you know. They were essentially just superhumans, and provided a healthier symbolic and psychological system than we have today; a system that provided guidiance if you will. Only the primitive village people, who had a different set of gods anyway, truly ever believed. Obviously, Evola and Joseph Campbell have much to say about this.

Furthermore, one would think these religions that are thousands of years old would die out. But they've been pretty good at adapting--or people have adapted their beliefs to suit the religion.

Alot of evidence points towards the fact that educated men of antiquity rarely believed in holy Gods = they only did so to aquire the will of the masses.

 

[Soilworker]

I think you'll be better off not feeding the troll. Or the moron, whichever it is (of course, the two aren't mutually exclusive). For that matter, Jesus was also interested in genocide when it came to groups of people who refused to believe, not just the god of the Old Testament.

being a muslim myself, i will say that jesus wasn't the saviour, just a prophet who lead the way for islam and him bringing forth genocide to kill any jew is fine with me.

 

[judas69]

See what I mean, both religions are strangely diametrically opposed.

 

[The Devil's Steed]

being a muslim myself, i will say that jesus wasn't the saviour, just a prophet who lead the way for islam and him bringing forth genocide to kill any jew is fine with me.

Actually, his belief in Genocide was to kill NON-Jews, much like the god of the Old Testament.

 

[Dead Winter]

Today I was watching CNN and a journalist was interviewing a soilder, and he said" "what a waste of resources. Our presence here is pretty pointless. Our american infantry is accomplishing about as much as the new iraqi governemnt...NOTHING! If anything, the insurgents are the ones who are the real winners...for now"

Intresting. Here we are, one of the most powerful 1st world countries in the world And we can't fight off a group of insurgents. Even with our high-tech equipment, they're still straining our military with their simple tacts. And how simple it is. If you think about this very hard. You will come to realize that the enemy (insurgents) are fucking brillant. Simple, yes effective. Very effective. If they just picked up a gun and ran toward our marines. They'd be shot without even firing a shot. Thats how we probably thought it would be in march of 2003. Instead of a man, strapped with dynamite. Walking into a huge crowd and killing himself and others. Simple yet effective, very effective when it occurs daily. We're in a tight squeeze here. Retreat, and we leave a safe haven for terrorist. A personal reminder to them of their victory against the supposed superpower of the world.
Stay and we face the continued slaughter of these extreme people. A terror that never seems to end, but only returns with a bigger bang. A place where the unsuspecting parked car can be a weapon.

A new century, a new war.

Well, you have to realize that the insurgents have the one thing that modern civilization doesn't: nothing to lose. Already blacklisted by everyone but their donkeys and fellow savages, they have the freedom to basically kill anyone they want without recourse, wheras the US and its allies must abide by the Geneva Conventions...more or less. Yes, we do have all the technology in the world at our disposal, but we cannot use it due to public outcry and, well, politics. War and politics don't mix. If we didn't care about public opinion and politics, then we would just carpet bomb the entire country, or even just turn it into a giant glass parking lot. However, we cannot do that because, contrary to popular belief, we are a civilized society. The insurgents don't come from a civilized society, and therefore do not have to abide by modern rules.

The fact is that Arab societies are extremely conservative and aside from a few modern amenities such as factories, automobiles, television, cellphones, etc., they are living about 200 years in the past according to modern values and practices...values being a very loose term. The western countries are constricted and have their hands tied due LOAC (Law of Armed Conflict), the Geneva Conventions, and plain old public opinion. The insurgents do not have these shackles around their consciences, and therefore whatever they deem necessary to get the job done will be done. It's quite literally like bringing a knife to a gunfight...and we've got the knife.

My personal opinion about any society where government is not just based on religious foundations such as the US, but where the government is completely in servitude to a radical religion leads me to believe that that society has no place in a modern society. I'm not saying it's bad or stupid or anything; it just has no place in modern society. If you're going to burn someone's embassy down and place death threats upon the heads of cartoonists for offending your oh-so-sensibilities, you do not belong anywhere near modern thinking societies. If I offended some of you, know that it is not my intent, only speaking my mind. Being someone who has actually BEEN to Iraq and various other Arab countries, I feel that I can justify my opinion about Middle Eastern society, rather than some fat, dumb asshole who just thinks that the US is always right and is the absolute best country to live in. I'm American, but living in Italy I'm a little shielded from the onslaught of bullshit hurled at most Americans every day. I really despise the type of stupid American attitude of, "kill em all". Truthfully, if you wanted to be rid of terrorism, you would literally have to obliterate every single country it originates, including our own. Personally, I really don't give a shit about the Iraqi people anymore, after seeing their hypocrisy first hand. These are people who rightfully despise the American occupation...I'd be really pissed off too if I had a foreign military force on my doorstep every day. However, while they condemn us and curse us all, whenever something happens due to the insurgents, the US is to blame, sometimes because we lured them there because of our presence, or because we happened to not be on that very street corner at the very same time of the attack. Now, as a civilian, I have a bigger field of view of the world, and it really is time to just finish the job over there, then get back to finishing the job in the United States, which should have been done about 40 years ago. We kinda got sidetracked by a couple of wars.

Bottom line: the American people need to take back their democracy from the politicians and put it back in the hands of the American people.

Just my opinion.

 

[judas69]

Someone should start a topic .. "Media, Hate and Propaganda".

 

[Xorv]

Well, you have to realize that the insurgents have the one thing that modern civilization doesn't: nothing to lose. Already blacklisted by everyone but their donkeys and fellow savages, they have the freedom to basically kill anyone they want without recourse, wheras the US and its allies must abide by the Geneva Conventions...more or less. Yes, we do have all the technology in the world at our disposal, but we cannot use it due to public outcry and, well, politics. War and politics don't mix. If we didn't care about public opinion and politics, then we would just carpet bomb the entire country, or even just turn it into a giant glass parking lot. However, we cannot do that because, contrary to popular belief, we are a civilized society. The insurgents don't come from a civilized society, and therefore do not have to abide by modern rules.

The fact is that Arab societies are extremely conservative and aside from a few modern amenities such as factories, automobiles, television, cellphones, etc., they are living about 200 years in the past according to modern values and practices...values being a very loose term. The western countries are constricted and have their hands tied due LOAC (Law of Armed Conflict), the Geneva Conventions, and plain old public opinion. The insurgents do not have these shackles around their consciences, and therefore whatever they deem necessary to get the job done will be done. It's quite literally like bringing a knife to a gunfight...and we've got the knife.

My personal opinion about any society where government is not just based on religious foundations such as the US, but where the government is completely in servitude to a radical religion leads me to believe that that society has no place in a modern society. I'm not saying it's bad or stupid or anything; it just has no place in modern society. If you're going to burn someone's embassy down and place death threats upon the heads of cartoonists for offending your oh-so-sensibilities, you do not belong anywhere near modern thinking societies. If I offended some of you, know that it is not my intent, only speaking my mind. Being someone who has actually BEEN to Iraq and various other Arab countries, I feel that I can justify my opinion about Middle Eastern society, rather than some fat, dumb asshole who just thinks that the US is always right and is the absolute best country to live in. I'm American, but living in Italy I'm a little shielded from the onslaught of bullshit hurled at most Americans every day. I really despise the type of stupid American attitude of, "kill em all". Truthfully, if you wanted to be rid of terrorism, you would literally have to obliterate every single country it originates, including our own. Personally, I really don't give a shit about the Iraqi people anymore, after seeing their hypocrisy first hand. These are people who rightfully despise the American occupation...I'd be really pissed off too if I had a foreign military force on my doorstep every day. However, while they condemn us and curse us all, whenever something happens due to the insurgents, the US is to blame, sometimes because we lured them there because of our presence, or because we happened to not be on that very street corner at the very same time of the attack. Now, as a civilian, I have a bigger field of view of the world, and it really is time to just finish the job over there, then get back to finishing the job in the United States, which should have been done about 40 years ago. We kinda got sidetracked by a couple of wars.

Bottom line: the American people need to take back their democracy from the politicians and put it back in the hands of the American people.

Just my opinion.

just beautiful........