Tips for band motivation

[tempe]

One thing that has always been discussed when referring to not just Joey's productions but other recordings that are similarly insanely tight is that of musician motivation during the recording process and trying to get the absolute best out of them. Another thing that I feel is relevant is exactly how to get the performances to the standard they need to be where the band is simply not good enough to perform it.

I myself use a fair amount of the "punch in until its perfect" technique but feel that when things get really bad, it starts sounding extremely fake even when you're allowing enough space before each crossfade to leave the pick attack untouched.

One thing I personally have had a lot of problems with is recording extremely fast palm muted syncopated rhythms. Particularly triplet patterns. I'd love to have light shared on effective ways to get this happening. I've tried recording it at half speed then slipping it back up, and tried recording the chugs at any tempo and just sliding them in, but I feel I'm not getting the same definition that I'm hearing on other records.

Finally, anyone got any tips for keeping bands motivated or understanding the need to been incredibly anal whilst tracking if they desire something that sounds like what they are giving as a reference (usually a joey recording).

 

[joeymusicguy]

One thing that has always been discussed when referring to not just Joey's productions but other recordings that are similarly insanely tight is that of musician motivation during the recording process and trying to get the absolute best out of them. Another thing that I feel is relevant is exactly how to get the performances to the standard they need to be where the band is simply not good enough to perform it.

I myself use a fair amount of the "punch in until its perfect" technique but feel that when things get really bad, it starts sounding extremely fake even when you're allowing enough space before each crossfade to leave the pick attack untouched.

One thing I personally have had a lot of problems with is recording extremely fast palm muted syncopated rhythms. Particularly triplet patterns. I'd love to have light shared on effective ways to get this happening. I've tried recording it at half speed then slipping it back up, and tried recording the chugs at any tempo and just sliding them in, but I feel I'm not getting the same definition that I'm hearing on other records.

Finally, anyone got any tips for keeping bands motivated or understanding the need to been incredibly anal whilst tracking if they desire something that sounds like what they are giving as a reference (usually a joey recording).

The big thing here is knowing when enough is enough. You could technically punch in every single note, one at a time. But after you've done this, you'd end up with a keyboard guitar track. You've gotta know when to punch / copy / paste / etc and when not too. After you've worked with a lot of bands and projects, you'll actually get a vibe for how to edit based on how the riff feels. I know that sounds counter-intuitive but its true. You'll get a knack for knowing why the guitar player is hitting this part of the riff late or early, and how to combat it. In short, you want to get the guitar player to play most of the part as clean as possible, and then remove the flaws and punch those back in. You'll end up in a lot of situations where the guitar player might be uncomfortable awkwardly punching in on 8th up notes or something. It's up to you to cleverly punch the guitar player in a way that he can understand and deal with, while still avoiding the flaws he might have with playing the parts at that time.

 

[joeymusicguy]

As far as keeping the band motivated, try spreading out the tasks. You know everything that needs to be accomplished... Musicians are lazy... so give them breaks. Do some guitars for a song, then some bass. Next day, do some vocals, give the guitar players a break.

In the moment, speak your mind. I've noticed that when I'm stoked on how an edit sounds, and I voice it, everyone else gets excited too. Even if they don't realize what I'm actually doing.

 

[jipchen]

Hells yeah, I already love this forum. Please keep the production / tracking tips coming, Joey. They're super helpful.

 

[jimwilbourne]

Do you have any specific tips for tracking metalcore type riffs.
The kind that include chords/chugging along with single note riffing

Do you recommend somehow spliting them up? It can be confusing splitting these into leads and chords/chugs.

 

[joeymusicguy]

Do you have any specific tips for tracking metalcore type riffs.
The kind that include chords/chugging along with single note riffing

Do you recommend somehow spliting them up? It can be confusing splitting these into leads and chords/chugs.

"up and down riffs" are a classic in metal core

its when the riff involves playing a palm muted note, then an open note, usually in very long sections of constant 8th notes.

the trick to doing this is record a take of all the root notes, just palm muting on every 8th exactly as it would be picked if the riff was really being played. depending on the riffs, some parts will end up being either down or up strokes...

next, record a take with all the opposite notes, or missing notes.

finally, remove all the extra palm mutes, and dead space from the second take.

combine the two takes together and cross fade!

 

[ahjteam]

"up and down riffs" are a classic in metal core

its when the riff involves playing a palm muted note, then an open note, usually in very long sections of constant 8th notes.

the trick to doing this is record a take of all the root notes, just palm muting on every 8th exactly as it would be picked if the riff was really being played. depending on the riffs, some parts will end up being either down or up strokes...

next, record a take with all the opposite notes, or missing notes.

finally, remove all the extra palm mutes, and dead space from the second take.

combine the two takes together and cross fade!

So am I understanding this correctly... If you have a say Asus2 (A E B), so you first chug the A+E and then the second pass with the B and then combine them?

 

[jipchen]

I inderstood it like this:

------------------------
------------------------
------------------------
------------------------
-------5------7------8-
0-0-0---0-0----0-0---- etc.

and you first track 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0, then 5 .... 7 .... 8, cut the 0's out and insert 5,7 and 8.

 

[timislegend]

you could just play the 1-3 (0)... 5-6 (0) etc.

then overdub the 5... 7... 8.


hmmm, right?

 

[Seth Munson]

I think everyone is making this seem way harder than it really is

Lemme simplify,
3 steps
First step: record chugs, now that we have a good chugs we move to step two
Second step: record the single notes
Third step: combine the best chugs from step one with the best notes from step two and crossfade

Amirite?

 

[The Front Studio]

I think everyone is making this seem way harder than it really is

Lemme simplify,
3 steps
First step: record chugs, now that we have a good chugs we move to step two
Second step: record the single notes
Third step: combine the best chugs from step one with the best notes from step two and crossfade

Amirite?

That's how I understood it haha

 

[jipchen]

Yeah, that's what I tried to describe. And I made the experience it's good to let them play chugs even in places they won't stay in the end, because of the picking (what joey said I believe) and the consistency. If you let them play the "needed" chugs only there will be more pauses and speed variations.

 

[jimwilbourne]

Yeah, that's what I tried to describe. And I made the experience it's good to let them play chugs even in places they won't stay in the end, because of the picking (what joey said I believe) and the consistency. If you let them play the "needed" chugs only there will be more pauses and speed variations.

Ahh. I think this is where I've been going wrong. I tend to get the guitarist to only play the needed chugs. When I combine the 2, it seems to sound unnatural. Perhaps consistently playing the chugs throughout the measures will create a much more natural sounding take.

 

[Trevoire520]

To be honest I've never thought about splitting up riffs like this. I can totally see how it would help to get a more consistent palm mute and a cleaner accent.

Do you always track guitars like this Joey? Or is it just something for when a band is struggling with a particular riff? Are there any other styles of riffing that you employ techniques like this?

 

[Dustin Morrison]

There isn't really an "Always" in recording. But I'd guess that 90% of the time the guitar player wont be able to play it as tight as that method will make them sound.

If it needs it, do it. If not, dont.

 

[tempe]

That tip Joey just gave is gold, I use that one alllllllll the time with bands that seem to write those sort of riffs 30bpm faster than they are capable of playing.