Tokyo warhearts vs Stockholm knockout

[tempestadiossa]

There's nothing anyone can do, the vocal chords simply degenerate after extended abuse like that.

Actually, I'm no singer but I recall talking to singers who said there's a way to scream/growl that won't damage your throat and vocal chords (which is why some bands stop doing growls after a while - see Avenged Sevenfold - and others don't - see Necrophagist). I think it's all about using your abdomen instead of your throat to distort your voice, but as I said I'm no singer.

Notwithstanding - the change in COB doesn't relate to vocals alone. It's the overall change in their attitude that bugs me the most. Back in the day they were humble, they knew their limits and had a lot of respect for their fanbase. They were humble despite being great musicians and putting up great gigs in which they never missed a goddamn note. I recall Alexi saying in an interview they'd never drink a single beer before going on stage because they wanted to give their best to their fans.

Now Alexi gets drunk before hitting the stage and pukes behind the monitors. His playing is sloppy to the point of embarassing, and they all look like they're ACTING. There is no more feeling, no more spontaneity in their behaviour. They think they're God's gift to metal when they clearly aren't, and they're cocky towards everyone including their fans. Their playing has worsened as well as their attitude, and they even sold out (Good morning, U$A! What about some mainstream metalcore like In Your Face and Was it Worth it? to please the younger generations as opposed to melodeath classics only purists are interested in?)...

This is what happened to this band from where I'm standing. My perception of what happened, anyway.
​

 

[(__Joonas__)]

(Good morning, U! What about some mainstream metalcore like In Your Face and Was it Worth it? to please the younger generations as opposed to melodeath classics only purists are interested in?)...

I agree they should focus on making "deathmetal classics only purists are interested in," but maybe Alexi's throat isn't up to it anymore and his interest. He should just do something that pleases both the fans of old and new COB.

 

[mocobhc]

(Good morning, U! What about some mainstream metalcore like In Your Face and Was it Worth it? to please the younger generations as opposed to melodeath classics only purists are interested in?)...

Which implies that Alexi writes that stuff consciously. I still don't think he does, although I can clearly see where you're coming from. But I would still give him that what he writes is an outcome of everything that surrounds him, and since his life is completely different towards HB or FTR times, one may expect a distinct change in his songwriting.

 

[tempestadiossa]

But I would still give him that what he writes is an outcome of everything that surrounds him, and since his life is completely different towards HB or FTR times, one may expect a distinct change in his songwriting.

Of course, I don't expect them to release HB pt.2 or FtR pt.2. Songs like SKO are perfectly fine with me. But songs like Was it worth it?... well, it's hard to believe it wasn't written purposedly to climb the charts. It sounds so much like IYF pt. 2 to me, and IYF is allegedly the song that made COB popular in the States...

... but as I said, it's their attitude that bugs me the most. If they were still as humble and respectful as they used to be, rather than patronizing and hoighty toighty as they are now, the change in style would be easier to accept for me.

 

[Necroraven]

Not to mention the years and yers of screaming have damaged Alexi'svoice. He's lucky he can still even do these vocals after nearly twenty years of doing them. Please, pleae, people, at least give him that. There's nothing anyone can do, the vocal chords simply degenerate after extended abuse like that.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are a lot of metal vocalists with more extreme vocal styles than Alexi's and who have been doing them longer with no notable difference in sound. Also, Alexi's vocals have been pretty shit since 2003, not just recently.

Actually, I'm no singer but I recall talking to singers who said there's a way to scream/growl that won't damage your throat and vocal chords (which is why some bands stop doing growls after a while - see Avenged Sevenfold - and others don't - see Necrophagist). I think it's all about using your abdomen instead of your throat to distort your voice, but as I said I'm no singer.

As a vocalist myself, I can say doing extreme metal-vocals isn't nearly as taxing to your throat as one would think, and yeah, it's all about the techique, but pretty much every vocalist figures it out sooner or later, likely Alexi did too. I'm actually quite sure, that Alexi's throat been damaged has a lot more to do with heavy drinking and smoking instead of doing vocals. But now that I started to think about it and listened to the vocals on all the albums, it doesn't even sound like he's trying to do Hatebreeder-vocals anymore. It's totally different vocal-style he's using nowadays. Of course the interesting question is why? Because the lazy metalcore-screaming fits the lame metalcore-music they are doing nowadays? Because Hatebreeder-vocals are harder on your throat than the new ones (this is understandable considering how much they tour now)? This should be asked from him in the interviews some time. I remember about three years ago some fan send this question to him in a finnish radio-program, but he just dodged the question by answering something like "Are they really that different?" Yes, they are.

It's possible, that he simply cannot do the old-vocals anymore, but it's obvious, that he's not even trying. Of course, too extreme vocals and music could scare their 14-year-old fans away, but then again Alexi has always said, that bands should do what they want themselves, and not what others want them to do. I find it hard to believe they got tired of doing three DIFFERENT, yet atmospheric, melodic and extreme albums, but not tired of doing lame pseudo-thrash-mallcore for three a lot more similar albums.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Of course, too extreme vocals and music could scare their 14-year-old fans away

True

I find it hard to believe they got tired of doing three DIFFERENT, yet atmospheric, melodic and extreme albums, but not tired of doing lame pseudo-thrash-mallcore for three a lot more similar albums.

This is exactly what I've been wondering too. One can only imagine what a legendary discography this band would have if they kept doing extreme, atmospheric and different Bodom albums. This subject has been talked to death. It's frustrating there are no other bands as good who would do stuff similar to old COB.

 

[NorthernQueen]

...I recall talking to singers who said there's a way to scream/growl that won't damage your throat and vocal chords...

...Now Alexi gets drunk before hitting the stage and pukes behind the monitors. His playing is sloppy to the point of embarassing, and they all look like they're ACTING....Their playing has worsened as well as their attitude, and they even sold out...

There is a way, yes, and Alexi's utilizing some of it. I think Necroraven said it, drinking and smoking will do it too. But Matt Hyde was also on Alexi's ass for the vocals this time (which I hated...-.-") but here and there I can see where Alexi stomped his foot and said, "Fuck you, we're doing it this way."

The only time I remember Alexi puking was when he broke his ribs, and a few scattered instances where he had the flu or something, and even then he continued playing; I can forgive him because he got his ass back up there and hardcore did shit. Correct me if I'm wrong. I will agree with you that Alexi's gotten a little sloppier, but not as bad as you might think. I will disagree with the selling-out, though. If you want a sell-out, go look at Within Temptation, and even Nightwish is starting to go. I feel like Children of Bodom at least still has their core values intact, that it is still about just making music.

Which implies that Alexi writes that stuff consciously...I would still give him that what he writes is an outcome of everything that surrounds him, and since his life is completely different towards HB or FTR times, one may expect a distinct change in his songwriting.

This.

...Alexi's vocals have been pretty shit since 2003, not just recently.

...I'm actually quite sure, that Alexi's throat been damaged has a lot more to do with heavy drinking and smoking instead of doing vocals. But now that I started to think about it and listened to the vocals on all the albums, it doesn't even sound like he's trying to do Hatebreeder-vocals anymore. It's totally different vocal-style he's using nowadays. Of course the interesting question is why?...

To go with the general style change. FTR -> HCDR was a sound change,arguably the most noticable to date, and therefore the vocals had to change, too. I don't think they're shitty, but they are different.

 

[nicottine]

I remember about three years ago some fan send this question to him in a finnish radio-program, but he just dodged the question by answering something like "Are they really that different?" Yes, they are.

aw c'mon... I think it's clear that he doesn't care about the vocals, its a just regular screaming, pretty much any one could do the job, it's not like he's some Glenn Benton or something...

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I strongly disagree about Alexi's old vocals being something "anyone could do." Only ever heard a couple people make as good vocals in the similar style. Anyone who is a metal fan shouldn't say that, it's disgraceful. These days they are shit more often than not, and have been for around 8 years, but it was a different band in the past. He USED to care about them, these days obviously not, apart from some rare occasions. I don't get why they use fast vocals and so many vocal parts in the new Bodom when it's not something to be proud of. They should change the whole thing. More music, melody and atmosphere and less vocals, and make those vocals count. It just sounds all the more stupid when Alexi can't even remember the lyrics, I'm embarrased by them and that sucks. He has a monotonous singing style with the new Bodom and can't do the youthful high pitch stuff or the good growls.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Compare these album opening verses

 

[<Arcane>]

Playing-wise and tone: TW
Songs: CRY

 

[srob7001]

Playing-wise and tone: TW
Songs: CRY

+1

 

[vivebodom]

SK
Alex was a fucking asshole. It's the loss of Alex that has sent things downhill. First, he was a fucking douche bag and then he went and OD'ed because some girl wouldn't pick him over Alexi.
The vocal thing could be a phlegm issue. If you are a vocalist you know that phlegm has a major effect and forcing your voice when you have a lot of mucus will destroy the chords.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

SK
Alex was a fucking asshole. It's the loss of Alex that has sent things downhill. First, he was a fucking douche bag and then he went and OD'ed because some girl wouldn't pick him over Alexi.

Wait... You're saying Alexander Kuoppala was hitting on some chick but acted like a jerk so the girl picked Alexi instead which made Kuoppala get pissed off and get overdosed with something? How do you know this story, explain? Maybe you're trying to say you think Ale quit the band because Alexi got all the chicks?

The vocal thing could be a phlegm issue. If you are a vocalist you know that phlegm has a major effect and forcing your voice when you have a lot of mucus will destroy the chords.

Well Alexi has a lot of slime circling thru cos he smokes and drinks... for sure the whiskey and smoking etc has destroyed his vocal chords. I'd be super stunned if he came up with the blackish Hatebreeder ever again, shame.

 

[tempestadiossa]

I'm surprised how much credit the vocals on HB are getting: I've always considered them the worst vocals on a Bodom album because they're so... weird and amateur... I don't know. Somehow, the vocals on FtR sound a lot more aggressive to me, and I like them better.

 

[vivebodom]

I'm surprised how much credit the vocals on HB are getting: I've always considered them the worst vocals on a Bodom album because they're so... weird and amateur... I don't know. Somehow, the vocals on FtR sound a lot more aggressive to me, and I like them better.

I've never been a big supporter of any of the lyrics.

Story time: Alexi does have a couple of different girls that he 'goes with' to piss of a certain girl (the girl in contention in the Alex story). Naturally, Alex felt he was a shoe in because the certain girl was so pissed off about the destructive advice that comes from the other two girls (which Alexi follows to the letter). However, following the fact that she does not want to see the band destroyed (a side note about Alexi's destructive predilection- she has threatened to destroy Bodom mostly because Alexi's actions with these other girls indicate that he prefers such a thing) she just couldn't get with Alex because that would have destroyed Alexi. They've known each other since they were pretty young...

Alex was acting under the advice of the other girls, and the deal offered the certain girl was a 'forever- i'll kill myself if you don't and i'll kill myself if you ever leave.' He was going to oust Alexi too.

Say what you will about all that. Personally, I feel that those are not the qualifications which form lasting relationships. Threats do not beget love. I say Alex was an asshole because he wasn't interested in forming a real relationship with the girl- he was only out for his interests. Didn't even consider that dinner and a movie might win her over without the need to concoct an elaborate scheme of hurting other people.

 

[Necroraven]

Story time: Alexi does have a couple of different girls that he 'goes with' to piss of a certain girl (the girl in contention in the Alex story). Naturally, Alex felt he was a shoe in because the certain girl was so pissed off about the destructive advice that comes from the other two girls (which Alexi follows to the letter). However, following the fact that she does not want to see the band destroyed (a side note about Alexi's destructive predilection- she has threatened to destroy Bodom mostly because Alexi's actions with these other girls indicate that he prefers such a thing) she just couldn't get with Alex because that would have destroyed Alexi. They've known each other since they were pretty young...

Alex was acting under the advice of the other girls, and the deal offered the certain girl was a 'forever- i'll kill myself if you don't and i'll kill myself if you ever leave.' He was going to oust Alexi too.

Say what you will about all that. Personally, I feel that those are not the qualifications which form lasting relationships. Threats do not beget love. I say Alex was an asshole because he wasn't interested in forming a real relationship with the girl- he was only out for his interests. Didn't even consider that dinner and a movie might win her over without the need to concoct an elaborate scheme of hurting other people.

What the fuck? Sounds like a load of shit But I think the bigger question was HOW you know that? You know the guys personally, or is that a rumour you heard from a friend who heard it from a friend's friend who read it on internet? Also, I don't think Alexander leaving has much to do with Alexi writing shitty mallcore songs these days.

 

[Gucking Fod]

load of shit

This

 

[vivebodom]

OK then YOU tell us what happened to Alex.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I don't know why but it seems to be almost official that Alexander leaving the band is why Alexi is writing 'shitty metalcore songs ever since.' Hasty conclusions, also stupid and unexplained, and have been trumped by certain people like me many times.

And since we're talking about Alexi and Alexander, I get confused when vivebodom talks about a person called Alex. And I'm not even commenting on these girl rumours.

And there's no she destroying Bodom, you can count on that.

Alexander left because he got tired of metal and wanted to base a family with his girlfriend. He's been teaching guitar ever since. One other theory is the label wanted two super talented guitarists for COB, but it's not valid cos Alexi's not capitalizing on Roope's skills at all on the composions.