Tom Editing

[Matt Smith]

For those of you who erase the tom tracks between hits as opposed to just gating them, how do you know how much "tail" to leave on the hits? Say I have a tom roll or pattern, and immediately after one of the hits is some cymbal or hat work. Obviously the cymbals tend to come through loud and clear in the tom mics, and sound like crap, but if I chop the track before the cymbal hit the drum has absolutely no resonance. Happens a lot, especially since tom rolls are usually followed by cymbal crashes.
What is the best way to handle this? You pros out there, feel free to tell me how it's done...

Thanks,

 

[Impy]

I'm not a pro, but i'll give my opinion anyways.
I'm usually not THAT picky with the tom editing, if a cymbal or hihat hit is right after the tom roll or hit i leave it, the sound of the toms is a priority and you can always get a lot of the cymbals out by EQing it where it gets audible on the tom track.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

If this is a real problem, try to replace the last hit by a sampled one. If you didn't record separate hits of each element in the drumkit, try to find one somewhere in your song that you could use. Hope that helps.

 

[Exsanguis]

Personally, I ride the faders for the tom tracks instead, sometimes never bringing them all the way down. I prefer this to muting or erasing the spaces in between tom hits as it feels a little more natural and fluid, as well as adds some extra ambience. This often really adds to the track, which is usually pretty dry sounding in metal, without giving it that huge room verb.

 

[Matt Smith]

Thanks for the tips. It's not any one specific problem, I just mean in general. Like is there a set length that you group fade all the tom tracks out after the transient, or do you go hit by hit and do them on a case-by-case basis?

 

[Exsanguis]

Once I get a decent balance between the tom tracks, I'll group them and control the fades that way, on a case by case basis, in realtime, so I can hear how much I need to fade, etc. I really started doing this when I got a controller, and it's never been better. Previously, I drew every fade in(and still do, at home), but now this is a lot more intuitive.

 

[Frank'nfurter]

In the meantime now I record the toms with SM57 AND a ddrum trigger! I track them separatly and mix both signals togeter well EQed. Absolut smashing sound WITHOUT cymbal bleeding. I take the 'boom' from the mic and the 'impact' from the trigger.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Yeah, I want to do that too (for gating) but can't find any Redshot DDrum triggers anymore

 

[Impy]

http://www.musicians-gear.com/

They still sold em last time i checked.

 

[~BURNY~]

Or here:
http://search.ebay.de/ddrum_Musikin...tionZcompareQQcopagenumZ1QQcoentrypageZsearch

 

[Frank'nfurter]

forget the red shots. they are crap. take the D-series. more stable!

You can get them cheap over ebay.

 

[Exsanguis]

So you're mixing the actual transducer signal in with the mic? I've heard of a few people doing this, and am really curious about it. With a mic like the SM57, do you really find yourself needing any extra "impact" on the toms?

 

[James Murphy]

i always record clean hit's from the toms at the top of a session.. every other piece of the kit as well for that matter... and i'll just replace the last hit. this lets you have the full tom decay (or control it as you like with a fade) without worry of a crash or hat just killing it. i don't try to eq the cymbal bleed out for the simple reason that it's just way too easy to kill the top end of the toms when trying to get rid of cymbals...

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

forget the red shots. they are crap. take the D-series. more stable!

Hey Frank, what do you mean by "more stable" ?

 

[Matt Crooks]

Matt - if you don't have the individual hits to use... I would cut the tom at a beat (on the cymbal if possible, or at the next beat if not), and then fade out the track to minimize the cymbal spillage.

 

[Daunt]

Hey Frank, what do you mean by "more stable" ?

Well, here's what I think:

- no wires on top of the trigger (what a stupid design!)
- better construction
- XLR connector

Both triggers:

 

[Impy]

I heard the foam thing on the red shot has a tendency to come loose.

 

[Exsanguis]

Everything on the Red Shots has a tendency to come loose. Piece of crap, IMO.

 

[Impy]

Haha well then i guess it IS a piece of shit then

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Anyone tried the Yamaha DT20 and the Roland RT3 ?