Top 10 Combat Rifles

[Ironbird666]

It sounds like you are describing the HK416 to me! Funny, but I saw a special last night on the M16, and they discussed the HK416 at the end. All hints pointed towards them using it as the next standard infantry weapon.

There's a video on youtube of a guy submerging an M16/M4 in water, then firing. It blew right up in his hands! The HK416 didn't miss a beat when tested! I have no doubt the M16/M4 is a great weapon though. I really want a Bushmaster or Colt when I have the dough.

Referring to your comment on the 5.56, I always find it hilarious when guys bag on the M16 saying: "Pussy ass round, no damage..." This usually comes from the guys who swear by their AKs and think everything else sucks lol. I guess velocity and the tumbling effect of the 5.56 doesn't enter into the equation for those jokers.

-Joe

Right on dude. I'm not sure if we'll actually get the HK 416 itself, or some knock of variation of the gas piston system. There is already talk of the Army looking into upgrading the existing rifles we have as an interim fix until something permanent is found. The problem is the cost per unit ratio for the 416, which is much higher than a standard M4. The Gov't won't spend the money on it if cheaper alternatives are availablve, which they are. Check out the company LWRC, they make gas piston rifles which are fairly similar to the HK rifle. I was issued a LWRC (M6A1 model, 10.5 inch barrel, topped with an Aimpoint M4 CCO) for use as my SWAT weapon (When I left active duty I became a police officer, so of course I had to try out for SWAT) and it was absolutely incredible. We ran the piss out of them trying to make it stop and we couldn't. They're a little cheaper than the HK but not enough to make you jump up and down.

As for my other job (I'm in the National Guard, leaving for Iraq in a couple weeks again ) we're still using the M4 carbine. If you take care of it, clean it properly, lube it properly, she'll run all day. It's not a bad weapon at all. The problem is most people have no idea how to maintain it. The military teaches us to clean it until no sign of carbon is left on the bolt, etc. This actually wears the parts down faster, causing reliability issues. Also, the powers that be preach "Just put a little bit of lube on it, especially in sandy environments", which is crap. Think about it, would you put just a tiny bit of oil in your car engine? Hell no, it would heat up, dry out what little oil you had, then lock up. Same thing goes for the M4. It's a machine - lube the damn thing. Sorry, had to rant a little!! LOL

About the 5.56 round itself, it's not tumbling that does the job. That little round is flying so fast that when it hits a target it tends to split into many smal pieces, which bounce off bone and tissue inside the body. Makes a mess for the most part. The biggest problem for that round is shooting long distance. Within urban areas there's no problems with it, the round is more than sufficient enough to handle business. Unfortunately in places like Afghanistan, the round is too light to provide sufficient stopping power at distance. That doesn't mean it can't kill the enemy, it just need better placement. To fix that issue a heavier round was developed and issued. As you guys can see, I'm into this subject!!

 

[spioraid]

P90 won't happen dude, it doesn't have the stopping power needed to be a proper Infantry weapon. We need weapons that have decent range, P90 doesn't have that. Granted, it's hilariously fun to shoot that thing, stupid crazy rate of fire and very easy to control. Also, I'm not sure what branch of the military you're a member of (if at all), but they teach us controlled, well aimed fire, not spray-and-pray. I'd prefer to keep the M16 family of weapons with an upgraded recoil system (gas piston). The M16 familiy of weapons is very accurate, and contrary to popular opinion, kills people very well (trust me, I have first hand experience with this). However, if I had to pick something else I'd roll with the FN FAL. My father has one and it's a beast. Not trying to start a war by the way, just throwing out my opinion after almost ten years of being an Infantryman.

Oh I totally agree, just relaying what I've been seeing in the firearms industry for the past 5 years. My co-workers were up at Aberdeen Proving Grounds more than at the workshop itself, so it was really cool seeing the works behind everything.

The assault rifle design is fantastic, and like you said if maintained properly it will run all day. Gas pistons are great!
http://vimeo.com/2126901

There's a video on youtube of a guy submerging an M16/M4 in water, then firing. It blew right up in his hands!

I'd be willing to bet something else was at play there. The M4 went through hell and back up at Aberdeen, passing each test with flying colors.

I really want a Bushmaster or Colt when I have the dough.

Oh man...when you have the dough, get the following:

1. DPMS upper
2. Black Panther lower
3. Quad-Rail
4. Leupold Scope
5. Red-Dot site on the side
6. Heavy collapsible buttstock

Work on the trigger and get both sights zeroed in and you have one mean puppy.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

Right on dude. I'm not sure if we'll actually get the HK 416 itself, or some knock of variation of the gas piston system. There is already talk of the Army looking into upgrading the existing rifles we have as an interim fix until something permanent is found. The problem is the cost per unit ratio for the 416, which is much higher than a standard M4. The Gov't won't spend the money on it if cheaper alternatives are availablve, which they are. Check out the company LWRC, they make gas piston rifles which are fairly similar to the HK rifle. I was issued a LWRC (M6A1 model, 10.5 inch barrel, topped with an Aimpoint M4 CCO) for use as my SWAT weapon (When I left active duty I became a police officer, so of course I had to try out for SWAT) and it was absolutely incredible. We ran the piss out of them trying to make it stop and we couldn't. They're a little cheaper than the HK but not enough to make you jump up and down.

As for my other job (I'm in the National Guard, leaving for Iraq in a couple weeks again ) we're still using the M4 carbine. If you take care of it, clean it properly, lube it properly, she'll run all day. It's not a bad weapon at all. The problem is most people have no idea how to maintain it. The military teaches us to clean it until no sign of carbon is left on the bolt, etc. This actually wears the parts down faster, causing reliability issues. Also, the powers that be preach "Just put a little bit of lube on it, especially in sandy environments", which is crap. Think about it, would you put just a tiny bit of oil in your car engine? Hell no, it would heat up, dry out what little oil you had, then lock up. Same thing goes for the M4. It's a machine - lube the damn thing. Sorry, had to rant a little!! LOL

About the 5.56 round itself, it's not tumbling that does the job. That little round is flying so fast that when it hits a target it tends to split into many smal pieces, which bounce off bone and tissue inside the body. Makes a mess for the most part. The biggest problem for that round is shooting long distance. Within urban areas there's no problems with it, the round is more than sufficient enough to handle business. Unfortunately in places like Afghanistan, the round is too light to provide sufficient stopping power at distance. That doesn't mean it can't kill the enemy, it just need better placement. To fix that issue a heavier round was developed and issued. As you guys can see, I'm into this subject!!

Very cool dude and thanks for serving by the way. I've been considering joining the servive, just not sure if it's the right time in my life at the moment. SWAT is cool though...I've been considering applying for the US Marshals actually.

I haven't heard of that gun...I'm gonna check it out though!

Ah yes, the fragmenting...forgot about that. I just think it's funny that these guys base EVERYTHING on size when it comes to say the 5.56 vs. the 7.62. How about accuracy, damnit!? lol

So can the standard M4s be fitted with a gas piston system?

As far as I know, the system on the 416 is pretty similar to most of H&Ks other rifles.

I'm very into this subject too! I shot my P2000 for the first time over the weekend and it was like butter. I officially love that gun!

-Joe

 

[J.DavisNJ]

Oh I totally agree, just relaying what I've been seeing in the firearms industry for the past 5 years. My co-workers were up at Aberdeen Proving Grounds more than at the workshop itself, so it was really cool seeing the works behind everything.

The assault rifle design is fantastic, and like you said if maintained properly it will run all day. Gas pistons are great!
http://vimeo.com/2126901



I'd be willing to bet something else was at play there. The M4 went through hell and back up at Aberdeen, passing each test with flying colors.



Oh man...when you have the dough, get the following:

1. DPMS upper
2. Black Panther lower
3. Quad-Rail
4. Leupold Scope
5. Red-Dot site on the side
6. Heavy collapsible buttstock

Work on the trigger and get both sights zeroed in and you have one mean puppy.

Yeah, I'm sure the US Military has ways of dealing with water penetration, this is just what I saw!

For some reason, I'm weary about piecing together my M4-style rifle. I have no doubt that some of them run awesome, I just think that something already assembled might be more reliable? Warranty?

I may be totally wrong though!

Also, I live in NJ so I have to be careful about which parts I choose. We have some screwy laws here. I'll check out that setup though. Thanks dude!

-Joe

 

[Mago]

What, no RK-62 in there, yet AUG is on place 7? Even though it takes like fourteen hours to disassemble it on field?

lol if that would be true I'd still be in the military

 

[Ironbird666]

Very cool dude and thanks for serving by the way. I've been considering joining the servive, just not sure if it's the right time in my life at the moment. SWAT is cool though...I've been considering applying for the US Marshals actually.

I haven't heard of that gun...I'm gonna check it out though!

Ah yes, the fragmenting...forgot about that. I just think it's funny that these guys base EVERYTHING on size when it comes to say the 5.56 vs. the 7.62. How about accuracy, damnit!? lol

So can the standard M4s be fitted with a gas piston system?

As far as I know, the system on the 416 is pretty similar to most of H&Ks other rifles.

I'm very into this subject too! I shot my P2000 for the first time over the weekend and it was like butter. I officially love that gun!

-Joe

I think it was Bushmaster that made a conversion gas piston kit, not sure if it's still available. I think gas pistons will be much more common and more affordable in the next few years, keep an eye out for them. As for serving, thanks for the support. It's kind of an akward subject though, I serve because I love my country and believe in it (the Gov't, well . . . LOL) but it's just a job to me . . . I'm not good at many things not involving a gun haha!

As for SWAT, a common term in the business is Sit, Wait, And Talk . . . not as glamorous as Hollyweird makes it out to be. Very hard, physically and mentally stressfull work. If you want to pursue a career in Law Enforcement just remember that while it's very rewarding to help your community, you will see the absolute worst on a daily basis.

Spioraid:

Have you ever checked out the 5.56 bullpup design that FN makes (the name escapes me)? I thought it was a pretty cool design but I'm still a little uncertain if it would ever have a future in the .mil.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

I think it was Bushmaster that made a conversion gas piston kit, not sure if it's still available. I think gas pistons will be much more common and more affordable in the next few years, keep an eye out for them. As for serving, thanks for the support. It's kind of an akward subject though, I serve because I love my country and believe in it (the Gov't, well . . . LOL) but it's just a job to me . . . I'm not good at many things not involving a gun haha!

As for SWAT, a common term in the business is Sit, Wait, And Talk . . . not as glamorous as Hollyweird makes it out to be. Very hard, physically and mentally stressfull work. If you want to pursue a career in Law Enforcement just remember that while it's very rewarding to help your community, you will see the absolute worst on a daily basis.

Spioraid:

Have you ever checked out the 5.56 bullpup design that FN makes (the name escapes me)? I thought it was a pretty cool design but I'm still a little uncertain if it would ever have a future in the .mil.

Cool, I'll keep an eye out for that kit. That's the best reason to serve in the military IMO dude. Kudos to you!

Yeah, I have no doubt that SWAT work can be boring...I was just considering something more exciting than my desk job.

Oh, I work for the homicide squad of one of the most violent counties in NJ. I don't physically see a lot of the super nasty stuff, but talk to witnesses a lot and it is indeed tough.

-Joe

 

[iekobrid]

I'd be willing to bet something else was at play there. The M4 went through hell and back up at Aberdeen, passing each test with flying colors.

It wasn't just submerged, it was submerged while the bolt was open then closed underwater.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGwkHktkTxU#t=77s


What gets me is, if you back that video up a bit to see the 416 test, the guy wasn't wearing a protective face guard, suggesting that he went into the water expecting the M4 to blow up in his face. More balls than brains.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

It wasn't just submerged, it was submerged while the bolt was open then closed underwater.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGwkHktkTxU#t=77s


What gets me is, if you back that video up a bit to see the 416 test, the guy wasn't wearing a protective face guard, suggesting that he went into the water expecting the M4 to blow up in his face. More balls than brains.

Haha yep, I got a kick out of that faceguard he had on for the M4.

On the program I saw last night, they submerged it in sand fully, in THICK ass mud, and water...416 didn't miss a beat. What a sweet gun...me want.

I bet the civilian version, if they make one, will be mucho dinero.

-Joe

 

[Ironbird666]

Cool, I'll keep an eye out for that kit. That's the best reason to serve in the military IMO dude. Kudos to you!

Yeah, I have no doubt that SWAT work can be boring...I was just considering something more exciting than my desk job.

Oh, I work for the homicide squad of one of the most violent counties in NJ. I don't physically see a lot of the super nasty stuff, but talk to witnesses a lot and it is indeed tough.

-Joe

Ah cool deal dude! I'm looking forward to a move out of patrol (I'm an FTO, SRT is a part-time deal for our department) when I get back from Iraq and into investigations. I'm burned out big time dealing with training rookies. They can be worse than criminals sometimes! LOL

 

[spioraid]

Spioraid:

Have you ever checked out the 5.56 bullpup design that FN makes (the name escapes me)? I thought it was a pretty cool design but I'm still a little uncertain if it would ever have a future in the .mil.

The FN2000? I'm all for a bullpup design in firearms. It doesn't change the effectiveness of the piece, it's more comfortable and gives you a smaller silhouette. Granted, it looks like something from Starship Troopers and doesn't appear to have much capability in the accessories department, but overall it's nothing to ignore.

I can see it having a future in the military if we find ourselves in combat that isn't entirely urban. But who knows.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

Ah cool deal dude! I'm looking forward to a move out of patrol (I'm an FTO, SRT is a part-time deal for our department) when I get back from Iraq and into investigations. I'm burned out big time dealing with training rookies. They can be worse than criminals sometimes! LOL

Haha, sounds like a plan dude...good luck!

I'm actually just a paralegal, but I do witness relocation for people who witness violent crimes and homicides. Just another day in Disneyland aka Newark! Haha.

-Joe