Vocal Producing (Telling the Singer what and how to Sing)

[Lon]

So... What do you do if you also get hired to give creative input?

do you analyze successful vocalists of the same genere beforehand to get a grasp of your task or do you approach the issue by "going by gut" ?

Are there some general guidelines how to get fitting vocals besides the obvious keeping pitch and getting the pronunciation understandable, you can assume that the singer is no douchemaniac and fairly competent but lacking a fitting delivery.

(all of this is of course under the assumption that you are not a full time vocal producer which sole job it is to produce vocals, in this case you are overqualified for this thread )

I'd really appreciate some general input on this topic as i am dealing with a situation roughly equal to the above ramifications (good no egomaniac singer but no feel for song intricacies).

cheers

 

[RedDog]

The best thing you can do is prepare yourself for either an excessive amount of whining, and thank your lucky stars if he takes guidance.

Ask him about his warm up, have him spend about twenty minutes breathing and humming.
keep room temperature water on hand.
Kep him off the grill (dynamic)
Tell him to open wide if he gets unintelligible.
If he's pitchy, tell him to focus on the note, don't tell him he's flat. Get those takes perfect.
Another trick is to say The notes were right, but I don't feel all the power you really have.
Track cleans on their own, dedicate a whole day if you need to. After that, harsh vocals are already warmed up and will be powerful.
Experiment a little if you can, get him to try out different mics.
Tell a joke. Laugh a many times as you can.

Get a many takes as you can handle as well. Once all that's tracked and ready to comp, chill out and have a beer.
Boom, vocals tracked.

 

[NSGUITAR]

Vocal producing is a very intimate usually.


Get the other band member out of the studio when you do them. 1 on 1 with the vocalist. 9 times out of 10, the other band members give really bad input anyways..

From there, just make sure this vocalist WARMS UP. It's so fucking essential that this is done.. Both physically, and mentally.

From there, start a vocal scratch track. Make the vocalist run through the song as if it's a live setting. This is going to psychologically prepare them.

All you gotta do from there is use your gut. Fuck other vocalists and what they do.. You're creating something from nothing (Hopefully).. So dig into your own mind and soul.

Also, weed does help.

 

[Extreme Vocals]

First thing I would do is make sure your ideas actually are better and not just your opinion. Many people want to change someone's performance just because it's not what they what do, and it's not necessarily better than what is already there. Is there anyone you can share your ideas with and get some other opinions from?

I would really avoid comparing him to other vocalists. You want him to do HIS best, not a copy of someone else that will always be inferior.
It sounds like you would have gotten some benefit from the free vocal consultations I just offered here - http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/off-topic-tavern/740823-holiday-gift-myself-forum-members.html

If it seems like would help you out, send me an email and i'll extend one more for you.

 

[AndrewB]

Everything RedDog said is right on. Although I'd like to add two more:
ask the vocalist how he/she felt about the previous take. After all, it is their song, so they should have ultimate control over the direction.
If you can, let the whole band play the song live a couple times before you track part-by-part.

 

[Ermz]

I find it helpful to have the lead songwriter/shotcaller of the band with me as we track the vocals. NOBODY else. Any more than two in the control room and you start wasting time. The reason for having that person there as we track is to have their influence/guiding hand on the process, as being an external producer you always run the risk of diluting, or derailing the essence of the band. I need them as much to reign me in, as they need me to tell them whether the takes are on par.

All the other stuff is well documented. Room temperature water, frequent breaks, small sessions blah blah. Dealing with the vocalist is different each time. Their personality really plays into it, and unless you can connect with them on some fundamental level, the session will just be awkward. I've had some great ones, and some poor ones. Usually the only thing that separates the two is how well I get on with the vocalist, and thus, how well we're able to communicate.

 

[Zozobra]

Attitude and state of mind are more important than with vocals than anything else. Relaxed, happy musicians play better, and that goes x10 for vocalists.

Also consider, and get the vocalist to consider the voice a musical instrument. You get new heads on a kit and tune it, seek out and damp rattles and anything slipping or loose, you put new strings on guitars, eliminate choking, set comfortable action, get the intonation as good as possible. Vocals are no different. Dont expect the best out of a voice thats not physically ready to perform. When a singer comes in, unless they're seriously pro, assume they're like a guitar with black strings, 3mm action, jackknifed bridge and indented frets. Dont treat them like that. That would be very bad. You have to handle them carefully. But get them do do some of the following (and do them with them if you can; it will make them feel less self conscious):

Long sustained hiss. As long as possible. Aim for 30 seconds. If youre good at it a minute is possible. This is for deconstriction and breathing control. Your torso should be ridgid while doing this.
Hum while rubbing your toungue round the front of your teeth, circularly, mouth closed. You will look and sound like a spacker. Funny if you both do it, laugh away, thats good for the session, deadly serious prepartion if just the singer does it, keep a straight face. This is to open up the back of the throat and deconstrict. Do until you physically cant stand it any more.
Arm and neck rotations and stretches, as though for a work out. Arms, all round, head, all directions but back. Relaxes and flexes the shoulders and chest, helps take strain and force delivery away from the neck (exactly the wrong place; should be abdomen (not diaphragm as many say; you dont have conscious control over your diaphragm).

Other things can apply to certain vocal styles, like if they need a pharyngeal voice or to engage the false folds or what have you, but those are main ones that any and all vocalsts should do. They should be done for 20 min before the session, and every half an hour during it, for 5 min, or whenever you hear the singers voice getting kind of empty or whistly when speaking (that means its strained and constricting).

Go through phrasings, punch in points, where to double beforehand. Part of this is also getting them to be comfortable singing infront of you before recording, and with you as someone that can give them usefull critique. Make tracking and breathing maps. Make sure you both have a copy.

Attitude as ermz rightly says, is all down the the individual, but the singer must be comfortable and generally happy. Try to find ways to phrase negative feedback in a way thats not obviously negative, or is encouraging. Give positive feedback whenever warranted, and whenever youre giving negative feedback as well, to sugar the pill. "I really like your _blah blah_ but I've heard you do the _blah blah_ better" is a sentence structure you'll hear from me quite often tracking vocals.

If possible, get them to do things that make them more comfortable performing even if it makes you cringe. They dont like cans? Flip phase on one monitor, take two tracks from the mic and flip one of those, have them sing in between the monitors. There will be bleed, but maybe they'll sing better. They arent comfortable standing infront of a mic on a stand, let them go hand held and go nuts. You just lost a lot of control over the sound of the vocal in the room, as its not fixed place any more, and maybe youre now using a mic thats not as good for the job, but those things pale in importance to a good vocal performance. The list goes on with that one; if somethings bugging them or holding them back, find it and fix it as best you can.

 

[Skinny Viking]

Vocal producing is a very intimate usually.


Get the other band member out of the studio when you do them. 1 on 1 with the vocalist. 9 times out of 10, the other band members give really bad input anyways..

From there, just make sure this vocalist WARMS UP. It's so fucking essential that this is done.. Both physically, and mentally.

From there, start a vocal scratch track. Make the vocalist run through the song as if it's a live setting. This is going to psychologically prepare them.

All you gotta do from there is use your gut. Fuck other vocalists and what they do.. You're creating something from nothing (Hopefully).. So dig into your own mind and soul.

Also, weed does help.

Everything you just said is spot on, except for that last idiotic statement ... you really need very little more than this other than making sure there is plenty of room temp water on hand

When trying to get the vocalist to project better, explain it in real world terms that actually yield the result you're looking for. If a part comes up where you want him to belt something out, don't just say "Ok, lets try and get this part nice and loud". Instead try to create the image of the result in the singer's head ... something like "For this part, imagine you're singing to someone standing across the street from you. They need to be able to hear you and feel what you're trying to say"

Take breaks when needed but never be afraid to push them a little further than they think they can go. Even if their voice starts to get a little froggy sounding, stick with it for 10 more minutes. You can can some really indefinable but awesome results at that point. Don't be afraid to use a little psychology on them. Simple statement. "I can live with it but are YOU happy with that?", "Dude, that was fucking great, I know you have one more in you" or "This part really needs a solid double" (even if you have no intention of doubling the part. Some of the best results I've ever gotten were from the 2nd take of the part I never intended to double

last but not least, make sure after all is said and done, they spend 5-10 minutes cooling down. This is essential, especially if you have more time booked with them for the next day

 

[Charles J]

Vocal producing is a very intimate usually.


Get the other band member out of the studio when you do them. 1 on 1 with the vocalist. 9 times out of 10, the other band members give really bad input anyways..

From there, just make sure this vocalist WARMS UP. It's so fucking essential that this is done.. Both physically, and mentally.

From there, start a vocal scratch track. Make the vocalist run through the song as if it's a live setting. This is going to psychologically prepare them.

All you gotta do from there is use your gut. Fuck other vocalists and what they do.. You're creating something from nothing (Hopefully).. So dig into your own mind and soul.

Also, weed does help.

SPOT THE FUCK ON and EXACTLY how I run ALL my vocal sessions. The way I mentally get into their heads and the way my demeanor is, the vocalists and I usually get into feeling like we're in a 'safe' place within 30 min to an hour.

You know, sit and chat, discuss lyrics, ask what ranges dude (or girl) like to do, how they're fave artists are, etc.... This usually stems into a much deeper convo and by the time I start playing the 'wrap it up' music the vocalist and I are both feeling stoked and ready to go.

It's all a mind game. AND NO OUTSIDERS UNTIL we have completed, say, 25% of the song... I'll always show it to the band as a whole (or whoever wants to come in for a listen) as we progress and actually have shit to show them as most bands leave me to ALL thing vox related.... besides a few ideas here and there.

I love it.

VOX are my favorite.

Even the last bit =D

 

[Line666]

Everything you just said is spot on, except for that last idiotic statement ... you really need very little more than this other than making sure there is plenty of room temp water on hand

When trying to get the vocalist to project better, explain it in real world terms that actually yield the result you're looking for. If a part comes up where you want him to belt something out, don't just say "Ok, lets try and get this part nice and loud". Instead try to create the image of the result in the singer's head ... something like "For this part, imagine you're singing to someone standing across the street from you. They need to be able to hear you and feel what you're trying to say"

Take breaks when needed but never be afraid to push them a little further than they think they can go. Even if their voice starts to get a little froggy sounding, stick with it for 10 more minutes. You can can some really indefinable but awesome results at that point. Don't be afraid to use a little psychology on them. Simple statement. "I can live with it but are YOU happy with that?", "Dude, that was fucking great, I know you have one more in you" or "This part really needs a solid double" (even if you have no intention of doubling the part. Some of the best results I've ever gotten were from the 2nd take of the part I never intended to double

last but not least, make sure after all is said and done, they spend 5-10 minutes cooling down. This is essential, especially if you have more time booked with them for the next day

I've run a similar process to this a lot, if there is a section I'm not particularly happy with I'll point it out and ask the vocalist - "that was good but what did you think of that part?" - nine times out of ten they will draw the same conclusion without you ever having to point out flaws and ask to have another shot at it.

 

[NSGUITAR]

Everything you just said is spot on, except for that last idiotic statement ... you really need very little more than this other than making sure there is plenty of room temp water on hand

When trying to get the vocalist to project better, explain it in real world terms that actually yield the result you're looking for. If a part comes up where you want him to belt something out, don't just say "Ok, lets try and get this part nice and loud". Instead try to create the image of the result in the singer's head ... something like "For this part, imagine you're singing to someone standing across the street from you. They need to be able to hear you and feel what you're trying to say"

Take breaks when needed but never be afraid to push them a little further than they think they can go. Even if their voice starts to get a little froggy sounding, stick with it for 10 more minutes. You can can some really indefinable but awesome results at that point. Don't be afraid to use a little psychology on them. Simple statement. "I can live with it but are YOU happy with that?", "Dude, that was fucking great, I know you have one more in you" or "This part really needs a solid double" (even if you have no intention of doubling the part. Some of the best results I've ever gotten were from the 2nd take of the part I never intended to double

last but not least, make sure after all is said and done, they spend 5-10 minutes cooling down. This is essential, especially if you have more time booked with them for the next day

As a matter of fact, the last statement isn't really idiotic. I could say that about 85% of the clients I work with smoke weed, and they will all agree that smoking weed helps them prepare. Of course I was joking a little bit because you don't a vocalist to SMOKE before hand. But I've found that a lot of metal vocalists are keen on edibles.

 

[NSGUITAR]

SPOT THE FUCK ON and EXACTLY how I run ALL my vocal sessions. The way I mentally get into their heads and the way my demeanor is, the vocalists and I usually get into feeling like we're in a 'safe' place within 30 min to an hour.

You know, sit and chat, discuss lyrics, ask what ranges dude (or girl) like to do, how they're fave artists are, etc.... This usually stems into a much deeper convo and by the time I start playing the 'wrap it up' music the vocalist and I are both feeling stoked and ready to go.

It's all a mind game. AND NO OUTSIDERS UNTIL we have completed, say, 25% of the song... I'll always show it to the band as a whole (or whoever wants to come in for a listen) as we progress and actually have shit to show them as most bands leave me to ALL thing vox related.... besides a few ideas here and there.

I love it.

VOX are my favorite.

Even the last bit =D

Dude.. Not gonna lie, but vox are my favorite thing to produce as well... Hate tracking guitars though. makes me want to die sometimes.


But I feel like vocals are what really bring the project together in the end. It's the zen.

 

[crillemannen]

I can sing very good myself so i think i'm really good at getting a good performance out of a soso singer. If they are really insecure i warm up with them
showing the different exercisses etc.

I often get compliments of how good my tracking vox sounds like and that also helps allot. And like how it is to track any instrument you always need to feel the situation, understanding when to critique and when to push them etc.

Recording a great musician is awesome, a bad one is a pain in the ass. that applies on all stages

 

[Skinny Viking]

As a matter of fact, the last statement isn't really idiotic. I could say that about 85% of the clients I work with smoke weed, and they will all agree that smoking weed helps them prepare. Of course I was joking a little bit because you don't a vocalist to SMOKE before hand. But I've found that a lot of metal vocalists are keen on edibles.

Well then it's not really a fact, is it Nick?

 

[NSGUITAR]

Well then it's not really a fact, is it Nick?

Lol got me on that one. More of a zen thing though. Equally as important.

 

[Charlie E.]

There's some good advice on here.
My only other contribution is that I recommend that the singer bring an extra copy of the lyrics for you or a flash drive or whatever so you can print out your own copy.
It helps a lot with communication if you can just say "hey lets try that second paragraph again" or "lets try this word" etc
You may also see something that looks a little off and you can offer your input on how to make the lyrics flow a little better or have other ideas on the rhythm or word choices.
Have fun!

 

[AndrewB]

I would like to emphasize something that Ermin said, which is VERY important. Singing is a very personal thing, almost like exposing a part of your soul to someone else (cheesy, but true). So singing to someone whose sole job in that situation is to criticize your singing, can be very uncomfortable. So you need to be able to connect with him/her and build some kind of trust.

 

[ahjteam]

So... What do you do if you also get hired to give creative input?

do you analyze successful vocalists of the same genere beforehand to get a grasp of your task or do you approach the issue by "going by gut" ?

Are there some general guidelines how to get fitting vocals besides the obvious keeping pitch and getting the pronunciation understandable, you can assume that the singer is no douchemaniac and fairly competent but lacking a fitting delivery.

(all of this is of course under the assumption that you are not a full time vocal producer which sole job it is to produce vocals, in this case you are overqualified for this thread )

I'd really appreciate some general input on this topic as i am dealing with a situation roughly equal to the above ramifications (good no egomaniac singer but no feel for song intricacies).

cheers

I had a screamer that I did some intense 1-on-1 vocal coaching with him (I'd guess total of 12 days of my time during 6 month period). I focused on 4 things with them when it came to vocal production:

1) Articulation, timing and lyrics:
- So that you can actually make out what you are singing. I focused on this A LOT during the tracking step; If _I_ couldn't make out what the singer was singing without the lyrics in paper in front of me, it was a new take.
- Writing lyrics that aren't too clumsy, cluttered or hard (no tongue twisters) or rushed (too much lyrics in too short period of time) and sound naturally spaced
- Since English wasn't their native language, we used http://thesaurus.com and http://dictionary.com a lot to double check on some words, synonyms and how they should be pronounced correctly
- We had a problem that the singer was too lazy and didn't want to write more lyrics so he started to give me the silent treatment when I forced him to write some more, so in the end the songs the songs STILL averaged almost 20 seconds more instrumental per minute than equivalent songs in the same genre.

2) Microphone technique:
- Stuff like not moving much
- Not cupping/holding the grill of the microphone even if it is an SM7 and looks good, because it just sounds like ass

3) Stamina
- Singing and breathing technique
- Not using too much vocal chord distortion. I also overdrove the Avalon preamp a bit in the recording situation to help getting the voice sound more distorted and saturated.
- Drinking a lot of water, not smoking or doing alcohol/drugs during the recording days (and one day before)

4) Emotion, pitch and performance:
- If you output your message with only your lungs, just go to the local TV channel to read the fucking news
- Using the pitch ranges that sounded good with his voice, or at least aesthetically more pleasing (so for the screamer using the Alexi Laiho / Phil Anselmo style "attitude" shouting range and minimal amount of grunting, pig squeals, screaming or screeching)
- Giving your all only to the parts that mattered the most, and not killing your voice after 10 minutes of screaming your heart out in one line in the verse that didn't even matter in the end.
- I rather got the pitch 90% there and emotion 100% there. We pretty much always went for a bit more emotional take than pitch perfect straight line that sounds lifeless. In the end I didn't even pitch correct the singer that much.
- We always went for the "sound good at the source", so we rather sang 30 good takes used the one that everyone was satisfied with, than do 2 average takes and edit the shit out of them and come up with sub par result.

Then if we look in retrospect what happened in the bands material:

- March: I asked him to do a really short vocal clip with pseudo lyrics, so I could find his strengths and weaknesses.
- April: this was a pre-production demo where I recorded the bands rehearsals
- October: this is the "non-mixed and only rough levels" preview that I used for the band to double check and approve the performances
- November: this is the final mixed version done in November.

The extra time we used in preproduction, we saved doubled in tracking, and the extra time we used in recording, we saved the time tripled in editing and mixing.

 

[AStudio]

Great input on asking the singer to provide all songs lyrics for you. If I cannot hear what the singer is saying I will ask them to normally open there mouth more and articulate a little better. Its really important for me to hear the lyrics.

Also don't be afraid to push the singer but you need to know when they are done and the voice is shot. Once you hit that barrier just stop. No more that day. Nothing will help but rest. No honey or warm water. Just rest. Generally Ill do a song at a time and then rest. If you do half a song then rest generally the vocalist isn't in the zone when they go again.

Generally speaking the better the vocalist, the less i have to do. They know exactly what they want and don't want. At that point its more of a damage prevention situation. Make sure they don't break there voice and correct the timing and pitch if needed. Also suggest doubles, harmonies ect. But the main bulk of the work is done if they are great singers. Much like guitars, drums or bass.

 

[ArthurD]

Well, If possible take his vocal coach to the session.
Let him prepare the singer for the session.