What does Blackguard do when not touring? (aka the thread that won't die)

[Palabra de Dios]

I just saw that Blackguard is going to be one of the support groups on early 2011's Deicide tour. WTF?

What does this band do when not being an opening metal act? I wonder....

 

[mëtålspëd]

I just saw that Blackguard is going to be one of the support groups on early 2011's Deicide tour. WTF?

What does this band do when not being an opening metal act? I wonder....

Make time to go to the bathroom, and make breakfast...

 

[Diabolik]

make calls to get on every other tour to bore people.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

make calls to get on every other tour to bore people.

Every time I read comments like these about Blackguard (and Powerglove, Into Eternity and a few other hard working bands), I have to smack myself over the forehead to keep from yelling "IDIOT" right back in your face.

Our scene is tiny, and there are only very few bands who are able to "make it" big at any given time. Often it has a heck of a lot to do with "luck" who actually makes it, or in some cases who they are "sleeping with" (metaphorically ...). But then there are those bands that takes it upon themselves to jump on every tour there is out there, paying their way throughout the country, and facing a new audience each and every night. Make no mistake, it's a costly thing to do, and I (without knowing the guys in Blackguard) am sure it has been a financial stress/burden as well as one with several personal sacrifices to be touring as much as they are. However, this is the only REAL way to make it to the point where music can become a career. You can write great albums, but if you're not at the right place at the right time, you're not going to become anything more than an amateur band. That's why you see Blackguard on every single tour there is, that's why you used to see Into Eternity on every single tour there was (until that cost them too many lineup changes for that to be any fun anymore), that's why (and HOW) Firewind did earlier on to make sure they got to where they are, that's why (and HOW) Kamelot did, etc ... tour tour tour ... and you'll eventually make it big or it's going to break up your band.

I've watched Blackguard live and I didn't like their music one bit - but, I have a tremendous amount of respect for them, cause they are road-dogging it 100% in their quest to become a success.

Quit bitching and be happy that there are some bands out there who actually face the hard odds of this business and fight to amount to something.

c.

 

[Diabolik]

Every time I read comments like these about Blackguard (and Powerglove, Into Eternity and a few other hard working bands), I have to smack myself over the forehead to keep from yelling "IDIOT" right back in your face.

Our scene is tiny, and there are only very few bands who are able to "make it" big at any given time. Often it has a heck of a lot to do with "luck" who actually makes it, or in some cases who they are "sleeping with" (metaphorically ...). But then there are those bands that takes it upon themselves to jump on every tour there is out there, paying their way throughout the country, and facing a new audience each and every night. Make no mistake, it's a costly thing to do, and I (without knowing the guys in Blackguard) am sure it has been a financial stress/burden as well as one with several personal sacrifices to be touring as much as they are. However, this is the only REAL way to make it to the point where music can become a career. You can write great albums, but if you're not at the right place at the right time, you're not going to become anything more than an amateur band. That's why you see Blackguard on every single tour there is, that's why you used to see Into Eternity on every single tour there was (until that cost them too many lineup changes for that to be any fun anymore), that's why (and HOW) Firewind did earlier on to make sure they got to where they are, that's why (and HOW) Kamelot did, etc ... tour tour tour ... and you'll eventually make it big or it's going to break up your band.

I've watched Blackguard live and I didn't like their music one bit - but, I have a tremendous amount of respect for them, cause they are road-dogging it 100% in their quest to become a success.

Quit bitching and be happy that there are some bands out there who actually face the hard odds of this business and fight to amount to something.

c.

I see your points but they are still a crap band. Nothing worse than being force fed stuff. Blackguard are riding any wave to get fans....which from seeing them a few times they have very little. I would love to see how many would turn out for a Blackguard headlining tour. Bands like this are a dime a dozen. Touring on every package is almost more hurtful now than helpful. Has Warbringer gotten any larger? no. Has Into Eternity? No. Has Powerglove? No Has Swashbuckle? No. Bands need to be smart when getting on tours. Eventually they will get burnout and end up self destructing while doing something they are trying to do to get known. Everyone knows them as the band that is on every tour. That is not what you want to be known for. I think any band who tours or doesnt tour would rather be known as the band that has great disc and great songs. Basically Blackguard are a spot holder on tours.

 

[nailz]

Nothing worse than being force fed stuff

No one is forcing you to see them. If you don't enjoy their set or their music go to a show late. I don't think I've been to a show at Doors since BG was here last time.

 

[Diabolik]

No one is forcing you to see them. If you don't enjoy their set or their music go to a show late. I don't think I've been to a show at Doors since BG was here last time.

at some clubs where I have seen them they have no ins or outs so you are stuck. Beleive me...I come late to lots of shows now since the lack of quality bands on tour.

 

[AngraRULES]

Every time I read comments like these about Blackguard (and Powerglove, Into Eternity and a few other hard working bands), I have to smack myself over the forehead to keep from yelling "IDIOT" right back in your face.

Our scene is tiny, and there are only very few bands who are able to "make it" big at any given time. Often it has a heck of a lot to do with "luck" who actually makes it, or in some cases who they are "sleeping with" (metaphorically ...). But then there are those bands that takes it upon themselves to jump on every tour there is out there, paying their way throughout the country, and facing a new audience each and every night. Make no mistake, it's a costly thing to do, and I (without knowing the guys in Blackguard) am sure it has been a financial stress/burden as well as one with several personal sacrifices to be touring as much as they are. However, this is the only REAL way to make it to the point where music can become a career. You can write great albums, but if you're not at the right place at the right time, you're not going to become anything more than an amateur band. That's why you see Blackguard on every single tour there is, that's why you used to see Into Eternity on every single tour there was (until that cost them too many lineup changes for that to be any fun anymore), that's why (and HOW) Firewind did earlier on to make sure they got to where they are, that's why (and HOW) Kamelot did, etc ... tour tour tour ... and you'll eventually make it big or it's going to break up your band.

I've watched Blackguard live and I didn't like their music one bit - but, I have a tremendous amount of respect for them, cause they are road-dogging it 100% in their quest to become a success.

Quit bitching and be happy that there are some bands out there who actually face the hard odds of this business and fight to amount to something.

Come on Claus, don't be so harsh man. I happen to agree with the joke. I am sure nobody was trying to crucify Blackguard for doing what they do. It's respectable, yes, but at the same time they're subjecting themselves to being made fun of. Don't you remember Zod's comment a few years back when Nathan mentioned Into Eternity coming in to watch a movie at Nathan's movie theater in MN?

"So apparently Into Eternity now also opens for movies."

I like Into Eternity and all, but that was one of the funniest and most relevant jokes about them touring so much.

As for Blackguard, while I respect what they're doing, I need to ask you a question. Do you really think they're going to get any more popular than they already are by jumping on every single tour they have the chance to? I think not. They're essentially playing for the same crowd everywhere they go. Into Eternity started touring like madmen when, 2004 I think? It's been 6 years. How much bigger are they nowadays? They haven't even gotten a direct support slot on a tour (I don't recall). At least Into Eternity's music has always been solid and they have never really been a "soup of the day" type of band. Swashbuckle and Blackguard on the other hand, are mediocre bands who jumped on the "folky" bandwagon and will, in my opinion, never become established bands. Just my opinion. Maybe it worked for Firewind and Kamelot - they weren't really cooking the soup of the day, nor were they being randomly placed on every single tour - at least their touring packages made some sense.

The record label must love these bands that jump on every single tour -they get their label logo promoted on every single tour, make most of the money off CDs sold during the tour - it works for them. The band gains fans (only up to a certain point, after the 5th tour in THE SAME EXACT PLACES playing for THE SAME EXACT CROWDS, everyone knows whether they love the band or hate the band), but ultimately get closer and closer to not having a single dime when they come home. It's financial suicide if it's done this way, I think.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

Come on Claus, don't be so harsh man.

Sorry bro, but I decide how harsh I wanna be, okay? Thanks.

It's respectable, yes, but at the same time they're subjecting themselves to being made fun of.

Why is that? Because they are doing what others only dream off?
In that case it's a mixture of ignorance and envy that makes people make fun of them. Sad.

Do you really think they're going to get any more popular than they already are by jumping on every single tour they have the chance to? I think not. They're essentially playing for the same crowd everywhere they go.

1) Yes they are more popular
- just look here at this forum, how many people haven't heard of them by now?
- also, the whole point is not to become HUGE OVERNIGHT; I already made that clear in my other post, that this is done for the longevity - it's a way to make people know who the band is and when the next album comes out, sales will be way bigger.
- also, and probably more importantly, most of the venues now know that BG has played at their venue more than once and the band can most likely pull some asses in the seats/house, which in return means that when BG feels ready to do a tour of their own, they will get a guarantee ($$$) from the venues to come and play. If you knew how difficult that is to get for a band that might have made way better albums than BG, but never toured, you would see the sense in this.

2) it IS a different audience they are playing to. Don't tell me that the ones who go see Nevermore are the same ones that go to see Deicide or Epica for that matter...

Into Eternity started touring like madmen when, 2004 I think? It's been 6 years. How much bigger are they nowadays?

Referring to my original post again; the band toured itself into the ground by losing too many members. It's hard to keep a band together when always on the road w no money to go ...

At least Into Eternity's music has always been solid and they have never really been a "soup of the day" type of band. Swashbuckle and Blackguard on the other hand, are mediocre bands who jumped on the "folky" bandwagon and will, in my opinion, never become established bands. Just my opinion.

And by stating your opinion you are completely missing the point. It has nothing to do with their music - as said, I don't like BG - this is about WHAT they are doing in order to make a living for themselves.

Maybe it worked for Firewind and Kamelot - they weren't really cooking the soup of the day, nor were they being randomly placed on every single tour - at least their touring packages made some sense.

I had a talk w Century Media awhile ago about how Firewind got to the level they are at now, and the message was pretty clear;
The band sat down and decided that "yes, we want it all" and agreed to spend all their money on tours and go out and give it everything they could (perhaps this is what Into Eternity should have done, instead of seeing one member after the other give up). They toured and toured and toured ... and look where they are now. Big enough to get a guarantee from each venue they play and to make some well deserved $$$.

 

[Diabolik]

sorry Klaus.....I dont envy Blackguard and being on tour all year long. I like my home, job, and my freinds and hobbies and would never trade that to tour the states over and over again scraping by with money.

Also you have to realize not everyone has the same mentality as here on this forum and their taste can range from Epica to Deicide. I know lots of people who go to all sorts of shows, so yeah....they do play in front of the same crowds. Just because the PP crowd sticks behind one or two genres....it doesnt mean most of the metal world does too.

 

[Jasonic]

Claus,
Respect is one thing, but success is another.

Here's the issue with bands being discussed:
1) The first reaction is always "Wow, them again????"
2) "Even though I like them, I will skip them this time knowing they tour all the time"
3) If they don't impress, the common reaction is, "Wow, they are the forever OPENING band"

Maybe there needs to be an ESCAPE FROM THE OPENING SLOT TOUR 2011, with Into Eternity, Blackguard, and Powerglove.

The main point being is that these bands need to do something unique to stand out on their own.

 

[Jasonic]

Just because the PP crowd sticks behind one or two genres....it doesnt mean most of the metal world does too.

Have to agree 100% with this one.
Well, that is until a band from a differnt genre gets booked at PP, but no need to go there, now do we?

 

[Claus / Intromental]

Claus,
Respect is one thing, but success is another.

Here's the issue with bands being discussed:
1) The first reaction is always "Wow, them again????"
2) "Even though I like them, I will skip them this time knowing they tour all the time"
3) If they don't impress, the common reaction is, "Wow, they are the forever OPENING band"

Maybe there needs to be an ESCAPE FROM THE OPENING SLOT TOUR 2011, with Into Eternity, Blackguard, and Powerglove.

The main point being is that these bands need to do something unique to stand out on their own.

You're missing the point - the goal is not "instant success". The goal is to be able to sustain life as a professional musician, where you get paid by the venues to play in front of an audience.
If you've been playing at "Venue A" 3 times in the last year as support to whoever it might be, there's a good chance you'll draw in enough people on your own to make the venue pay you a chunk of money when you come around as "headliner".

 

[Claus / Intromental]

Also you have to realize not everyone has the same mentality as here on this forum and their taste can range from Epica to Deicide. I know lots of people who go to all sorts of shows, so yeah....they do play in front of the same crowds. Just because the PP crowd sticks behind one or two genres....it doesnt mean most of the metal world does too.

Of course there are people who enjoy all kinds of music, just like there are people who enjoy all kinds of food - that doesn't mean you can't make up a quick demographic and say that most of those who eat at Bojangles aren't the same ones who eat at Olive Garden or whatever.

I used to work at a metal club and when we had power metal shows there, it was one kind of audience that showed up. When we had death metal shows, it was a different kind of audience. Yes, there were some people who went to both shows, but that's not the majority.

c.

 

[Jasonic]

You're missing the point - the goal is not "instant success". The goal is to be able to sustain life as a professional musician, where you get paid by the venues to play in front of an audience.
If you've been playing at "Venue A" 3 times in the last year as support to whoever it might be, there's a good chance you'll draw in enough people on your own to make the venue pay you a chunk of money when you come around as "headliner".

Trust me, I get your point.
Just because we don't agree with it, doesn't mean we don't get it.

Tell me honestly. How many bands can you think of who started out as Blackguard is doing now have truly made it as a headliner, from starting out as "That band who is the opening act on every tour"?

 

[Claus / Intromental]

Tell me honestly. How many bands can you think of who started out as Blackguard is doing now have truly made it as a headliner, from starting out as "That band who is the opening act on every tour"?

Difficult to say, but I am pretty certain that as the whole music business is changing, you'll see alot more of this over the years.
The time where a band could rely on album sales to make them "professional musicians" are long gone except for the very few. So what needs to happen in any bands career in order to make any money is to stay on the road - however, we all know that when you're on the road you need to get paid by the venues, and in order to do that you need to build up a reputation, just like any actor has to go to a hundred screenings before getting chosen to be in a paid job/movie, or any model has to do a ton of unpaid photoshoots before landing that one frontcover that pays money.
That's the business of today, and we'll see plenty of bands in the future who has to do it that way. Question is, can they afford to do it?

 

[General Zod]

Interesting dialog. In part, I agree with Claus. Assuming one of the guys in Blackguard doesn't have a wealthy relative who's financing all of this, than I respect the heck out of them for believing so fiercely in themselves and making the sacrifices that go along with living the life of an opening band. That said, I'm certainly not above making Blackguard jokes when they land on yet another tour.

I also agree, in part, with Diabolik; I think their strategy is a bad one. First off, they need to recognize that it's the same group of Metal fans in each city that come to 90% of the Metal shows. So there's very little value in booking yourself on a half dozen tours in one calendar year. Conversely, they'd be better off practicing, refining their sound and working on their songwriting.

 

[dcowboys311]

I'm interested in how a band like Blackguard would make the transition from opener to headliner. Like Claus said, it's obviously not going to be overnight. But when will it ever happen? I just can't see people thinking "oh, I'll go see their headlining tour when I've seen them open for 5 shows in the past 8 months." If they stop touring that much though to try and build time between tours, won't they lose momentum? Goatwhore still can't headline successfully. Arsis can't. Into Eternity can't. Powerglove can't. Warbringer can't. Really, the only band who I've seen make a decent transition is Skeletonwitch, and it seems that they're the outlier. What's a good move for a band like Blackguard to make (especially when their recorded output is subpar).

 

[Jasonic]

Sorry, I extremely disagree.
I think the newer bands who are making it these days are NOT the road warriors who try to get on every tour possible.

With the online communities, word of mouth travels fast.
Look at bands like Atlantean Kodex, Dawnbringer, and Agalloch.
Those three bands will finish 2010 releasing three of the most anticipated releases this year. Neither of those three bands tour regularly, and most certainly never been on multiple tours in one year.

They made a name for themselves on one thing only.
THE MUSIC!

It is unique and gets people talking.

As a result, all three bands are in demand, esp in a live setting.

To be honest, all three bands could probably do pretty decent hitting the road, with the right touring partner, and promotion.

sure, they might not play venues as large as Blackguard, but they have fans.

I am not totally dissing Blackguard by the way. To be honest, I have never heard them, but based on the fact they are on 5 bills a year as an opener, they have the stigma for me as, "That band who just latches on to every tour"

So, I don't care one bit about any respect that the bands being discussed here deserve for being road warriors. My respect goes for bands who use the proper resources to get their music out there and write original and interesting metal.

 

[Jasonic]

What's a good move for a band like Blackguard to make (especially when their recorded output is subpar).

If your bolded statement is true and is a shared opinion by many, their path is already chosen. I am sure their label is providing some support for being on all these tours. If their discs are subpar and aren't selling, the well will dry up and they will fade away.