What is the *ultimate* option for recording real valve amps at low volumes?

[drew_drummer]

What is the ultimate way to record valve amps at low bedroom studio volumes, in your view? Loadbox and IR's, or a dedicated solution like the Two Notes stuff? Attenuator and decent microphone+preamp combination? ISO cab?

So many ways to skin this cat, and if I can crack it for myself, I'll probably rid myself of my Axe FX.

 

[atoragon]

the two notes, that uses also a dummy load to not break the poweramp

 

[Manicompression]

I have one of those weber mass attenuators, it does the obvious volume attenuation but also has a di out and a basic eq. I've used it a bit to do the amp out into impulse thing, recabinet, nebula ownhammer libraries ... Its cool and pulls fine results that way but I stll think just micing my amp up once ive knocked it down to bedroom volume sounds best

 

[~BURNY~]

Attenuators are nice tools to have, but not to get that tube tone at bedroom levels. They are great if you are after saturated power tubes at bearable levels. They don't work well with modern high gain amps imo.
That being said, the TADsilencer I own has a load option and a line out.

 

[RaNk]

I don't think there's an ultimate solution for this. I feel most modern amps should sound just fine without any power tube distortion. I think the difference comes more from the bigger movement of the speakers? It's not that much though, I did a test once with different master volume settings (lower to higher) and I can't hear a difference in the clips (used Engl Savage 120). I'd always start with an amp that sounds good on low volumes from itsself, I'm not a big believer/fan of attenuators but it seems to work for others.

 

[zakky]

i would say iso cab for the real deal....ir's are cool with loadbox but cab and mic as you know wins

 

[Megin]

Engl Amps works great even on low volume.

 

[AD Chaos]

I don't think there's an ultimate solution for this.

+1.

Not the 'ultimate' solution but seems pretty clear like the best bet nowadays is to profile the amp, then use the Kemper instead.


I know you're asking for an option involving the amp directly, but if there was I'm sure we'd all heard it by now..

 

[PD-Baraka]

Built a tent around cab. Your welcome

 

[DocSauerkraut]

I don't think there's an ultimate solution for this.

+2

But if there is, i'd highly appreciate if somebody would tell me.

I think the difference comes more from the bigger movement of the speakers

+1

 

[Christian WUFU]

I don't think there's an ultimate solution for this. I feel most modern amps should sound just fine without any power tube distortion. I think the difference comes more from the bigger movement of the speakers? It's not that much though, I did a test once with different master volume settings (lower to higher) and I can't hear a difference in the clips (used Engl Savage 120). I'd always start with an amp that sounds good on low volumes from itsself, I'm not a big believer/fan of attenuators but it seems to work for others.

That's BECAUSE you used an Engl
The power section in Engl amps has little, to nothing to do with the tone and saturation for the most part. It all comes from the preamp.

Try this with a 6505/5150 or a Mesa and tell me the difference isn't there.

 

[RaNk]

That's BECAUSE you used an Engl
The power section in Engl amps has little, to nothing to do with the tone and saturation for the most part. It all comes from the preamp.

Try this with a 6505/5150 or a Mesa and tell me the difference isn't there.

Yes indeed that's what I meant with lots of modern amps sounding good at low volumes. It doesn't work with my JCM 800 or 6505. It works perfectly well with the 5150 III (mini in my case) though.

 

[Christian WUFU]

Yes indeed that's what I meant with lots of modern amps sounding good at low volumes. It doesn't work with my JCM 800 or 6505. It works perfectly well with the 5150 III (mini in my case) though.

Interesting info on the 5153. I take it you haven't tried that with the 100W head, have you?

To the OP, your best bet may be something like the torpedo. That new Randall 4x12 iso can looks slick from Ola's demo, though.
Also, an Engl's preamp out into a quality IR sounds fucking killer.

 

[aortizjr]

I have been looking into this too. Not only for final tracks but even tracking full bands without isolation rooms.

To me isolation cabs have that boxy weird shittiness. However, the Silent Sister does not but $$$. So to me that would be the "ultimate" option. But it also isn't silent and with the venting causes a lot of low-end rumble in the room. However, lots of people love the tone and feel like they get the punch and dynamics they want.

On the cheap, I have been toying with the idea of getting a Jet City Iso cab and modding it with a labyrinth air chamber down the side or something.

Also basically the other option is load boxes and IR's however you achieve that. Either with the TwoNotes box or in the DAW, the results should be very similar if not identical with the same IR. But IR's have their own weirdness even though some claim they can't hear a difference. To me they don't have the low-end punch and have strange static resonances and I just can never get them to sound as good as mic'd cab. Even making my own and A/Bing the IR sounds 2D and has some weird upper midrange-ness that I don't like. But of course many dudes get some killer tones out of them.

In my head, the least amount of compromise would be the silent sister. Everything is real and the demos I have heard sound pretty good to me. But to many the IR option isn't too far behind if at all.

This is all assuming you are dead set on using your tube amps, and for good reason! So far my favorite has been the Kemper. Dial in a tone with a mic, profile it... use it for all the tracking... profit. At least then you are only pissing off your neighbors for an hour or so. But even with the Kemper, I nearly always start with an amp tone first.

 

[RaNk]

Interesting info on the 5153. I take it you haven't tried that with the 100W head, have you?

Indeed, I got the 5153 for this convenience, haven't tried the 100W version. And the mini sounds great to me.

About the volume, I can do a master volume test with the 5153 if interested. E.g. starting with 0.5 master volume and going up from there.

 

[azistenostora]

Probably not what you want to hear but I gave up trying to mic my Blackmore on bedroom levels. Just not possible imo. I tend to get better results with impulses.
I tried the THD Hotplate as well which did nothing (on bedroom levels it will allow you to go from level 0.0002 to maybe 0.0004 lol

 

[Rumy73]

I have been looking into this too. Not only for final tracks but even tracking full bands without isolation rooms.



To me isolation cabs have that boxy weird shittiness. However, the Silent Sister does not but $$$. So to me that would be the "ultimate" option. But it also isn't silent and with the venting causes a lot of low-end rumble in the room. However, lots of people love the tone and feel like they get the punch and dynamics they want.



On the cheap, I have been toying with the idea of getting a Jet City Iso cab and modding it with a labyrinth air chamber down the side or something.



Also basically the other option is load boxes and IR's however you achieve that. Either with the TwoNotes box or in the DAW, the results should be very similar if not identical with the same IR. But IR's have their own weirdness even though some claim they can't hear a difference. To me they don't have the low-end punch and have strange static resonances and I just can never get them to sound as good as mic'd cab. Even making my own and A/Bing the IR sounds 2D and has some weird upper midrange-ness that I don't like. But of course many dudes get some killer tones out of them.



In my head, the least amount of compromise would be the silent sister. Everything is real and the demos I have heard sound pretty good to me. But to many the IR option isn't too far behind if at all.



This is all assuming you are dead set on using your tube amps, and for good reason! So far my favorite has been the Kemper. Dial in a tone with a mic, profile it... use it for all the tracking... profit. At least then you are only pissing off your neighbors for an hour or so. But even with the Kemper, I nearly always start with an amp tone first.

I have no idea how mic your cabs, but I close mic for metal so room tone is not an issue. Therefore, the iso cab serves to isolate the volume. How does it sound boxy?

 

[aortizjr]

Just listen to some clips of iso cabs and you can immediately hear it. So even close mic'd the room does have a bit of impact. And I am not alone in hearing that.

With an iso box you are hearing a small space even with lots of absorption. Mainly because it is nearly impossible to get enough to properly absorb lower frequencies.

Also since it is sealed the cone is pushing into a compressed space and the diaphragm of the mic capsule is also getting pressurized as well. So you are dealing with a much different environment that doesn't sound like a room at all. There is a great explanation about how the Silent sister avoids that with an air labrynth which comes straight out of acoustic venting texts.

Now I haven't used the Silent Sister but the clips sound like they don't have the usual boxy shit that iso cabs have. But I have used the Randall and a Grendel and it was usable, but too some drastic eq to get that boxiness out. And I can hear it in every clip online. This weird phasey boxy midrange and kind of a choked sound.

 

[jipchen]

Just listen to some clips of iso cabs and you can immediately hear it. So even close mic'd the room does have a bit of impact. And I am not alone in hearing that.

With an iso box you are hearing a small space even with lots of absorption. Mainly because it is nearly impossible to get enough to properly absorb lower frequencies.

Also since it is sealed the cone is pushing into a compressed space and the diaphragm of the mic capsule is also getting pressurized as well. So you are dealing with a much different environment that doesn't sound like a room at all. There is a great explanation about how the Silent sister avoids that with an air labrynth which comes straight out of acoustic venting texts.

Now I haven't used the Silent Sister but the clips sound like they don't have the usual boxy shit that iso cabs have. But I have used the Randall and a Grendel and it was usable, but too some drastic eq to get that boxiness out. And I can hear it in every clip online. This weird phasey boxy midrange and kind of a choked sound.

+1

I have yet to hear a silent cab recording that doesn't suck. I can even hear it when one was used for creating Kemper profiles. Personally, I'd go with the TwoNotes Stuff. Either their hardware units or some loadbox and their plugin.

 

[~BURNY~]

I have no idea how mic your cabs, but I close mic for metal so room tone is not an issue. Therefore, the iso cab serves to isolate the volume. How does it sound boxy?

In a small enclosed space mid frequencies will have enough energy to bounce back at the mic, no matter how close it is to the source, creating all sorts phase correlation problems and comb filtering.