when micing dirty guitars. high end or not?

[Carrier Flux]

In my recent experiments mic'ing up my speaker cab I've been having trouble getting something that sounds pleasant and also has presence. as I move the mic around I'm either getting a lot of nasty sounding high-end frequencies, or getting a good solid warm sound without much presence, so it sounds kind of dull.

The reason I've been avoiding the high end is that when I double or quadruple my guitars, those nasty frequencies double up really quick and sound damn nasty.

So I'm wonder how other people approach the tradeoff. or do most of you get a decent mic'd sound with good sounding high frequencies without say, having to boost the highs after you've recorded the guitars?

btw here's my chain:

ibanez s540 with emg85 in bridge
mesa rectifier recording pre
mesa 20/20 poweramp
ported bogner 1x12 with vintage 30 speaker
sm57 > FMR really nice preamp
shinybox ribbon mic > FMR really nice preamp
tc electronics M-One (A/D only)

thanks.

 

[Wolfeman]

If you can get both those tones you mentioned, then obvously some kind of mic placement in between will get you the tone you want.

Or maybe you need to work on the amp settings also....

 

[JeffTD]

Have you tried just using the 57? I'd start with that aiming at where the cone meets the rest of the speaker, and go from there.


Also, with Recto's, I love this trick... Turn the presence off, and the highs up.

 

[Carrier Flux]

Have you tried just using the 57? I'd start with that aiming at where the cone meets the rest of the speaker, and go from there.


Also, with Recto's, I love this trick... Turn the presence off, and the highs up.

the highs meaning the treble knob? or throwing an EQ in the chain? I have a 3band parametric sitting here that I'm not using...I could toss that into the chain.

 

[Exocaster]

the highs meaning the treble knob? or throwing an EQ in the chain? I have a 3band parametric sitting here that I'm not using...I could toss that into the chain.

The highs meaning the treble. Some people like to dial in the Recto the opposite way as well, treble down, presence up.

I'd try fixing the problem with amp settings and mic placement before I tossed anything else into the chain. You've got some really nice gear; there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get a great tone out of that with a little tweaking.

I'd go back and try to get close using just the 57, though, as you're running through a 1x12. (Very clever, btw, the 20/20 through the little Bogner cab. You should be able to push that at totally reasonable levels...) You might have a phase issue with the mics that's crapifying your sound?

 

[Sly]

You have a great guitar rig so you can have without any problem a great sound coming from your amp.

Try that :

1) Power on your amp and let the tubes warming.
2) Put your head 50 cm in front of the cab and find the speaker that seems to sound the best. Then, stay in front of that speaker and find a balanced amp EQ from here but be careful to your ears.
3) When the sound seems to be the best to you, put the SM57 just 2 cm straight in front of the speaker.
4) Choose a listening system that you perfectly know (headphones you use every day, monitors you know very well...) and move the SM57 around, changing the axis and also the horizontal position.
5) Find the more balanced sound, "neutral", just scooped in the meds as you want to, boost the basses to have the big low end and manage with the highs to get rid of the agression. And be careful with the gain, sometimes the knob at 4 or 5 is enough !
(please note that if you can be 2 persons to do the whole job it's WAY EASIER to concentrate on the sound : one playing an heavy riff, and listening into the headphones or monitors far from the amp, and the other moving the mic around till it's good).
6) Then now that you get that sound, push the "play" button on your DAW and loop play one part in the song, and just play the guitar over the looped drums.
7) Insert an EQ on the guitar track and high pass it at 100-120 Hz ; low pass at 12-13 khz, all that to make the things clearer. Pan hard left the guitar track you are playing, so that you can hear how the guitars are in the spectrum, how they let the drums breathe (too much meds/not enough), how they sit in the low end.
8) Look back to the amp EQ and move the knobs a little, just to judge what's missing or what's "too much" in your sound. Try some extreme EQ and come back to more reasonable ones, and you'll have an idea of what sounds great.
9) When you have the best sound to your ears, push the record button, play the part twice and pan them hard let and right. And listen !

If the drums seem to lack of space, there's too much mids ; if the whole guitar sound is muddy, you probably cut too much mids... etc.

You also have to know the bass sound has a great role into big guitars. You have to make the guitars to stick to the bass, frequencies under 100 Hz are generally cut on guitars, because that's where the bass sits.
I love to record bass first after the drums, so that I can stick it to the guitars well.

Do that a lot of time, and do not hesitate to blend different guitar sounds for different purposes, then pan and EQ them differently.

That's how I do, and it works well !

(high end helps a lot too)

 

[JeffTD]

Yeah, I mean presence knob down, treble knob up.

You should be getting awesome tone, I agree. Try from the 57 alone and get a great tone with that, and then add in the ribbon to taste to make the tone even better. Or hell, leave it out of the signal chain period.

This is what my old Single Recto could do through a 2x12 with V30's and a single SM57:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=187505&songID=3726205

 

[chadsxe]

I had my treble knob at like 8 on my last project and my presence at about 3. Then again I also had my bass at six and my mids about maxed out......