who believes in god
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Rose Immortal
Spirit of Hope
- Jun 19, 2004
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kazahana
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- Jan 12, 2004
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I'm agnositc - I was brought up a christian but realised I only believed in god because that was what I was told to do as a kid. With no other justification, I decided there was no point believing in the christian god (along with various contradictions I came across). So I don't know either way, but I think the chances are there is a "god" of sorts, just not in the same way as any of the religions I know of. If there is a god, I doubt humans are his/her primary concern and I certainly don't believe in worshipping a god, obeying rules it apparently made or asking it for help.
This thread could go horribly wrong.
This thread could go horribly wrong.
kazahana said:
1. Remember the black metal thread? I was pleasantly surprised at how civil conversation turned out to be there.
2. I used to be agnostic until someone told me that agnosticism is for people who don't like to burn their bridges. Then I thought it had to be either one or the other. So I thought about it. Do I know if there's a god? No. Does it make sense to worship something that might not even exist? No. Doesn't it make more sense to lead a virtuous life for the sake of the common good, and not for entrance to a heaven that might not even exist? Yes.
There are so many inconsistencies in religion that make no sense to me. I was raised Muslim then I went to Catholic school. Muslims aren't allowed to eat pork because pigs are considered dirty because they roll around in the mud. Pigs roll around in mud because they don't have sweat glands. Based on religion, who made them like that? Looks like god made a minor mistake. The Bible says that God made people so they could worship him, but doesn't that seem selfish? Churches everywhere, Christian or otherwise, are so full with hypocrisy. I find more comfort in doing my own thing--not killing anyone, not stealing, and doing my best to be nice to others. I don't need prayer to tell me to do that.
Jax
Forum Goddess
Despite this being a topic that usually gets rather heated & often ugly, I'm going to leave this open as long as it remains civil..if that changes, I'll shut it down.
Rose Immortal
Spirit of Hope
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Sadly there ARE a lot of people who give a bad name to religion. These kinds of people very nearly did scare me away from my faith. It's not like I didn't think and consider before I decided I did want to stay as a Christian. I did my research (both in books and in my heart). I decided the only way to do anything about the problems is for me not to run away from them, but to try to deal with any injustice if I see one and try to help heal any damage that has been done. Unfortunately I do think perfection is too much to expect of a human attempt to respond to God (just as with anything else we do), but I think I'd be negligent if I didn't try to make peace where I can be of help.
There are other very personal experiences that influenced my decision, but I'm afraid when I say "personal" I really MEAN "personal."
There are other very personal experiences that influenced my decision, but I'm afraid when I say "personal" I really MEAN "personal."
soundgarden
I know how to be cool !
I am not religious at all. In fact, I don't believe in organized religions. God is god. Treat your home(Earth) and others the same way you would like to be treated. That is one concept I try my best to abide to.
I do not doubt god's existence. There are way too many dead ends in the anti-god arguments.
Atheism is a very sad and dangerous path in my opinion. I cringe at the thought of death being the absolute end.
I do not doubt god's existence. There are way too many dead ends in the anti-god arguments.
Atheism is a very sad and dangerous path in my opinion. I cringe at the thought of death being the absolute end.
kazahana
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Do you know there's not a god? No.Beelzebub said:
Of course it has to be one or the other, but while there is certainly no direct evidence to prove the existence of a god, there is none to disprove it either. Being an atheist means you utterly reject the idea of a god, which is as closed-minded as utterly believing in one as far as I'm concerned.
I quite agree. In fact, even if god did exist in any of the way world religions suggest, I would still disagree with the concept of worship - "better to die on your feet than live on your knees" or whatever the quote is.Beelzebub said:
You have on your hands a dilemma: who defines what "good" is and isn't? Who ultimately creates and upholds laws - punishes bad people for their crimes? My take on this is that religion is almost a requirement for the evolution of intelligent life - at some point someone needs to take charge and determine absolutes (and to a lesser extent to explain scientific phenomena). In this case, it's the concept of an all powerful being or god, but it might as well be a deified human, like an emperor who effectively is all-powerful. Then over a long period of time, people come to realise that there are other systems for governing themselves and that maybe people are in fact created equal, and very slowly that religion isn't necessary because the god never existed in the first place but was required to put law in place - to stop people from misbehaving on pain of eternal damnation. Perhaps religion even incites people to hatred and crime based on fanatic faith in that religion (not pointing any fingers here - any religion could be perverted and used for fanatic behaviour).Beelzebub said:
I agree completely. I onced asked a curate at my church whether or not people who lived entirely selfless lives would go to heaven, even if they hadn't had the opportunity to hear about Jesus. He told me they would not get into heaven, as the bible says that the only way to heaven is through Jesus. I have been told this by some people, and the opposite by others, who interpreted it as meaning if you followed his example of behaviour.Beelzebub said:
To my mind this says a few things - if Jesus is kicking people out of heaven because purely through no fault of their own as they never had the chance to convert, then I don't want to believe in a god like that - who creates people equal then turns his back because you haven't heard of him. On the other hand, the Bible is supposed to be the word of god, so if you choose to interpret it then you're second guessing god which is fairly presumptuous given he's infallible.
Also, a lot of people turn out bad because of their upbringing or through terrible life experiences. That's not their fault - why should they go to hell because they had a bad upbringing? Perhaps people are created equal, but given different opportunities from birth which sort of nullifies the created equal business, so if you're god, you can't discriminate based on life actions because they were based on their upbringing which was your fault in the first place.
I don't understand what a soul is, or even if we have one - or what consciousness is or how it might relate to a soul, but as I have no proof of the existence of a soul or any similar concept separate to the chemical reactions in my brain, I also reject the idea of reincarnation.
These and other arguments overwhelmingly prove to me that none of the world religions I know of are worthy of putting my faith in. This said, I can't grasp how the universe can have always existed and think that it must have been created. By who and why I don't know (I know only that no religion here knows any more than I do and that I'm more open minded), but I think we are a happy accident that came about through as a result of millions of years of evolution rather than a direct intention to create the human race.
Once again, I agree but you still have to abide by laws which have their roots in religion even if those things you list appear as common sense.Beelzebub said:
I think religion would die pretty fast if it wasn't passed down within families - look at how much christianity has declined in the west (if not in numbers of practicing christians, then in terms of the strict rigour in which it is practiced) where parents haven't forced the idea on their children as was done to me (not unpleasantly, just unquestioningly).
I would like to believe in the concept of a soul - that when we die we go on to a better place (hopefully Valhalla), but there are too many things that I don't know for me to say one way or another for certain that I believe a god exists.
ThornsOfSorrow
Member
I'm an atheist. Somehow, I can see this thread turning into a HUGE argument. However, the people here seem more civil than those on other boards.
Jeremy Krull
Destroyer of the C-List
+1. This is basically how I look at things.
Actually a lot of atheists would tell you it's not all that dark and sad. Since they believe they only have one life to live, they live every day to the fullest and try to get all the joy they can out of every moment. And they don't believe in Hell, that's gotta brighten up anyone's day.
16 posts and no flames. *knocks on wood*
i met God once...Him and His band were playing a concert in toronto. He played guitar. one of the names of the songs was "Evolution: The Grand Design" i believe. He went by the name Michael.
in all seriousness, i don't follow one religion. i feel many of them have great aspects, and am very open to all of them. i can't see there being one right religion with the rest being wrong. i do however believe that there is a higher power.
in all seriousness, i don't follow one religion. i feel many of them have great aspects, and am very open to all of them. i can't see there being one right religion with the rest being wrong. i do however believe that there is a higher power.
ThornsOfSorrow
Member
kazahana, re-quoting everything you said would make this thread a mile long. I read your whole post, and understand your thoughts, and respect your opinions.
Right now in the US, there's debate over having the ten commandments posted in public places. Out of the ten commandments, only two of them are laws: Thou shalt not steal and thou shalt not kill. How many people dump their parents in a nursing home and never ever visit them? I can't think of anyone who's not said "Jesus Christ!" or "God damn it!" at some point in their lives to express frustration. There are people out there who work Sundays just to make ends meet, does this mean they're going to hell? According to some people, yes, that will.
People seem to forget that this country was founded with the intention of separation of church and state. The US constitution and the Declaration of Independence were based on ideas from the enlightenment, a movement which was turning away from the church. Founding fathers were spiritual, not religious.
On a personal note, I'm pretty much a go with the flow type of person. Not believing in a god works for me. If I get hit by a bus on my way out to buy the paper, then so what? I think I've led a good life, and I'm glad with what I've done so far with myself. Are there holes in my outlook to life? Yes, most likely. Do I care? No. I'm not a miserable person.
Right now in the US, there's debate over having the ten commandments posted in public places. Out of the ten commandments, only two of them are laws: Thou shalt not steal and thou shalt not kill. How many people dump their parents in a nursing home and never ever visit them? I can't think of anyone who's not said "Jesus Christ!" or "God damn it!" at some point in their lives to express frustration. There are people out there who work Sundays just to make ends meet, does this mean they're going to hell? According to some people, yes, that will.
People seem to forget that this country was founded with the intention of separation of church and state. The US constitution and the Declaration of Independence were based on ideas from the enlightenment, a movement which was turning away from the church. Founding fathers were spiritual, not religious.
On a personal note, I'm pretty much a go with the flow type of person. Not believing in a god works for me. If I get hit by a bus on my way out to buy the paper, then so what? I think I've led a good life, and I'm glad with what I've done so far with myself. Are there holes in my outlook to life? Yes, most likely. Do I care? No. I'm not a miserable person.
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