why i wont do free testmixes anymore...

[colonel kurtz]

i don't do the text mix thing either, and never will...and think about it:

if i need some electrical stuff done at my house, i might call 3-4 different electricians, but i'm not going to expect each one to wire an outlet for me for free before deciding who i'll hire to do the rest of the house

or if i need a new roof put on, i'm not going to hire 5 different guys to slap on a square of shingles, then hire the one who did the best - what i WILL do is find a house with a damn nice looking roof on it, ask the owner who did the work, and then call that guy and get an estimate. if the price is right, go with it...if not, find another nice looking roof and get ahold of that guy.

i think the whole "test mix" thing is fucking uke:

 

[Melb_shredder]

^^^^^ BACHING!!!! I think we have a weiner! That's exactly right dude! The only reason bands think it's acceptable in this field of work, is because we allow it to be so! End of story!

 

[Taurean]

I never do "test" mixes. That's what audio examples are posted for, so the individual gets an idea of how I approach mixing. It's exactly right that we have control over this aspect and we can prevent it from turning into a cheap flea market vibe. People are getting fucking spoon fed a lot these days, time for them to (re)learn how to follow an instinct based on some research and commit to a decision.

 

[Ionei]

The fuck.

I'd never do any type of "test" mix.
That is wasting my time.
And time is money.

 

[Plec]

Now I'm going to sound like such an old guy...

But I think a lot of it is due to the fact that younger people don't know that stuff costs money in the real world. It's not so hard to grasp that with a bunch of pirated software and all the time in the world that someone could find it reasonable to mix a full length for $400.

I was just surprised myself that when I went to get four nice big band posters framed it cost me almost $400 for the materials and work, whereas if I had done it myself and only got the materials it would've run me $40. That's one of those moments you realize that audio engineering is NOT the right line of work if you want to get rich.

But it seems that whole thing is something that you just grow out of. I can see now with friends and other people I know playing in bands, now when they're getting themselves together and actually working, buying cars and houses etc... For them to spend something like $4000 on a self-financed album is considered very much ok and almost cheap. Look at what else you can get for $4000... a really nice MacPro, an ok used car, a nice pair of speakers etc... stuff that people buy on a regular basis without thinking about it much. So why should that figure almost be considered expensive when it comes to music production? To record and produce something that you've worked your ass off creating for maybe 6 months to a year that will also live on after you. It's almost as if... how do you even set a fair price tag on that!

 

[Dexter_prog]

What if you are new into this, would you people then send a test mix? I mean, what I don't get is, how does the band know that are good/will do a good job if you are new? Or does this no-test-mix rule go for pros only?

 

[coreysMonster]

if you want to know how a guy mixes, just check his previous work *shrug*

or charge for a test mix with bleeps, I dont see why anyone would give a test mix for free, its still work that you're doing.

 

[Ionei]

What if you are new into this, would you people then send a test mix? I mean, what I don't get is, how does the band know that are good/will do a good job if you are new? Or does this no-test-mix rule go for pros only?

Well if the band chooses you wouldn't they have already heard your work?
Thus giving them an idea of how well you mix.

 

[if6was9]

Great point Plec, people( especially younger generations) don't know the value of things, especially in regards to music. To them music is free, if its free why should I pay so much to have it recorded when I can download the software the pro's use for free and do it myself too.
Alot of people don't factor in not only the gear and experience that it takes but also that when you're working on their music it's NOT your free time, its work same as it is for anyone else's job. They wouldn't spend an extra day in the office for a client or work an extra day behind the till in a shop for nothing so why should you slave over a mix for nothing too?
I've had a band say that 70 euro's a day was too expensive for recording and to ask if I could bring it down because they're broke... am no thanks, that was an old rate, already reduced because they're friends, they were alot more commercial than most work I do so it could lead to alot more work and were gonna commit to doing a full album.
I've had bands bitch and moan about the smallest amounts of money come time to cough up- after they going out spending 40-50 quid each nightly on booze and more on drugs once their portions of tracking were done.

Also did a project on location at a guys house, we stayed tracking guitars till after 3 in the morning, start back into tracking by 10 the next day, finished around 5. He wanted to count that as a half day because we didn't go any later, so pulling a 17+ hour day no extra charge is cool but when its 7 hours its not a days work? I'm never doing that again- an hourly charge after normal tracking time seems to kill people's enthusiasm for working late into the night...

 

[DanLights]

What if you are new into this, would you people then send a test mix? I mean, what I don't get is, how does the band know that are good/will do a good job if you are new? Or does this no-test-mix rule go for pros only?

My advice: If you're new, make a hell of a good job on your own band, some Demo or Ep or something, and use that to promote yourself. Done, no free testmixes must be given

Edit: I totally agree with Plec, and he does sound like an old man hahahaha kidding man, 100% agreed

 

[Ermz]

an hourly charge after normal tracking time seems to kill people's enthusiasm for working late into the night...

Yes! I've never had a problem after implementing this.

 

[Joshnano]

Even though Test mixes can be a loss of time for you more 'skilled' folk at mixing, it definitely helps out when you're still in the 'I've only mixed 5 songs total' kinda thing going. It helps build up your resume and hone your skills but after a while I don't think it's really needed as you could get people to pay you some cash once you get the general feeling and hang of how you mix. Just make sure you know what you're doing in the end, haha.

 

[DanLights]

Even though Test mixes can be a loss of time for you more 'skilled' folk at mixing, it definitely helps out when you're still in the 'I've only mixed 5 songs total' kinda thing going. It helps build up your resume and hone your skills but after a while I don't think it's really needed as you could get people to pay you some cash once you get the general feeling and hang of how you mix. Just make sure you know what you're doing in the end, haha.

Again, you'd be much better by building your portfolio with stuff of your own band/projects than by doing free tests for other bands, heck even a free recording for a band if you're friends with them, at least that way that mix will actually get out and have your name on it, on a testmix that didn't "win" the spot like the OP, it sucks and was a total waste cause that mix won't go out, you can keep it for yourself

 

[Joshnano]

Again, you'd be much better by building your portfolio with stuff of your own band/projects than by doing free tests for other bands, heck even a free recording for a band if you're friends with them, at least that way that mix will actually get out and have your name on it, on a testmix that didn't "win" the spot like the OP, it sucks and was a total waste cause that mix won't go out, you can keep it for yourself

Not entirely true, though. Whose to say you can't add the songs to your portfolio on your website/myspace/etc. as a mixer? I think no matter what you mix, your customers should get to hear your work from all over, but that's just me. :Smokedev:

 

[DanLights]

Not entirely true, though. Whose to say you can't add the songs to your portfolio on your website/myspace/etc. as a mixer? I think no matter what you mix, your customers should get to hear your work from all over, but that's just me. :Smokedev:

not sure, but I don't find it appropiate to have on the web and show off a mix from a band that wasn't approved, even if it was your time and a waste of it for that matter, it's still not your songs, and you were the dumbass who did that test for free in the first place, and didn't win the "competition" so your mix is not considered official and not approved by the band. Your own band's stuff, on the other hand...

 

[Joshnano]

not sure, but I don't find it appropiate to have on the web and show off a mix from a band that wasn't approved, even if it was your time and a waste of it for that matter, it's still not your songs, and you were the dumbass who did that test for free in the first place, and didn't win the "competition" so your mix is not considered official and not approved by the band. Your own band's stuff, on the other hand...

You got a good point, but you gotta start somewhere I guess. Like I was saying, the free mixes are great for the first initial mixes to get the hang of it. I guess I was just thinking of wanting to have something to show the band your mixing so they can a tleast know how you mix before hand if you have had no previous bands that you mixed.

 

[DanLights]

You got a good point, but you gotta start somewhere I guess. Like I was saying, the free mixes are great for the first initial mixes to get the hang of it. I guess I was just thinking of wanting to have something to show the band your mixing so they can a tleast know how you mix before hand if you have had no previous bands that you mixed.

well, to be fair... if you haven't mixed any previous bands, how on earth did they even contact you about recording? must be because of a mix of your own band they heard? or simply because they're your friends and know you from somewhere else? In that case, mix them for free and there's your first mixing experience! From then on, spread the word, more bands contact you cause they like your work, start to charge, repeat, millionaire

 

[Joshnano]

well, to be fair... if you haven't mixed any previous bands, how on earth did they even contact you about recording? must be because of a mix of your own band they heard? or simply because they're your friends and know you from somewhere else? In that case, mix them for free and there's your first mixing experience! From then on, spread the word, more bands contact you cause they like your work, start to charge, repeat, millionaire

Fair enough. That's a great idea! gives you a chance to get your name out. Thanks. I can't believe I haven't thought about that at all haha. But to answer your question I've mixed my own bands album and a couple of my friends band, but that's about it. I need to increase my repitoire.

 

[Plec]

I think that if you're just starting out, do as much free work as you possibly can. But that's just me...

From experience this has worked out very very well for me at least. When I started out I just wanted to do it, you know. Didn't care about getting paid or anything. Used pirated software 100% because I couldn't afford it. Jumped on any type of work I could get my hands on, didn't care about genre at all. I did dance, electronic, country, rock, metal, jazz, big bands, etc... As long as it could be considered music it was ok.

It gave me the chance to discover the similarities and differences of working with very differing styles and very different people. Doing such a wide range of music enabled me to evolve very fast in a short amount of time and I made great contacts in a lot of different places that today really is the core of my business. 50% of actually making a living doing music is learning how to handle people and the suits in the biz and being able to relate to what they're doing. If you're the best producer/mixer/song writer (fill in the blank) in the world and you have no people skills... you will not make it long term.

I understand now that people who are willing to do this is quite a rare find. Talented and willing to work for free and put it in 20 hour days for weeks on end just to gain experience and keep doing this as long as it takes. Looking at the music education climate here in Sweden at least, the chance that you will run into a person with that drive seems about 500 to 1. It's usually the notion that "hey, I've had this education now and know how everything works. I want to work 8 hour days, no weekends and make a normal salary".

Welcome to McDonalds, may I take your order...

 

[Ermz]

Yeah, you've gotta work for free early on to build the portfolio. Take all the shit that comes with it. At the very least you will come out on the other end with some impressive people-handling and editing skills. Handling clients diplomatically definitely is half the battle. You have to on some level be very personable and to a degree, charismatic when taking on the producer mantle. They have to WANT to listen to your advice, not fight against it.

The thing I take issue with is dangling a 'prize' that's the equivalent to a turd on a string, for a bunch of new guys to fight over. It's insulting, to be frank.