Wouldn't it be a joy to record a drummer like Eloy Casagrande from Sepultura?

[jangoux]

Just a note about Jean Dollabella, former Sepultura drummer: before Sepultura, he played for a banda called Diesel. They won a Sprite contest, played in Rock in Rio, then went to the USA and became Udora. They toured with Jerry Cantrell, have a pretty good alternative rock CD. Anyway...He was fired because he fucked the guitarist's girlfriend eheh and a couple of months later the guys came back to Brazil hehe

 

[Manicompression]

While I stand by my statement that they really should just call the band something else since Max and Igor are long gone, I would have have to say that imo the newer Sep records are considerably better than CC and Soulfly. I just think it only makes sense for the labels and lawyers and not the fans. Also if they ever did reunite the full lineup it takes some of the oomph and wow out of it. Same as new Guns and Roses. I actually think Chinese Democracy is worlds better than Velvet Revolver is/was, but it sounds like late era Faith No More album. They shouldnt call that Guns and Roses, It stands on its own but is not similar sounding to the classic lineup.

Also, I think its cheap to discount Andreas's playing as a Max ripoff, newer Soulfly stuff sounds pretty uninspired riff wise unless Rizzo is shredding it up or doing something interesting. I think Max is coasting on his legacy whereas Andreas is actually still a sick player trying hard to outdo himself and make great records.

 

[DanLights]

I still don't see the "should have another name" thing, Kisser and Paulo have been in the band since like the first full length album, that makes 2/4 of the guys from the first album, where's the "cover band" there? Songwriting credits mention the whole band, so even legally they're fine.

 

[Manicompression]

Thing is, I know your right that they have good reason to do so, But I think the fact that we are talking about the original singer and drummer is what makes it feel so backward to me. I loathe putting any stock in the importance of certain roles over others in a band but i feel denying the importance of the mark they left in the identity of the group is crazy in this instance. They could replace Igor with Terry Bozzio or a re-animated John Bohnam and it would still feel wrong to me. Hypothetical for a moment. If Slayer replaced Tom Araya and Dave Lombardo and kept putting out albums no matter how good they were, would you still consider the band to actually be Slayer just because Kerry and Jeff were still writing the songs? Also, as much as im opposed to them not just renaming the band I would hardly call them a cover band. Saw them live with both lineups, they are still punishing.

 

[DanLights]

Thing is, I know your right that they have good reason to do so, But I think the fact that we are talking about the original singer and drummer is what makes it feel so backward to me. I loathe putting any stock in the importance of certain roles over others in a band but i feel denying the importance of the mark they left in the identity of the group is crazy in this instance. They could replace Igor with Terry Bozzio or a re-animated John Bohnam and it would still feel wrong to me. Hypothetical for a moment. If Slayer replaced Tom Araya and Dave Lombardo and kept putting out albums no matter how good they were, would you still consider the band to actually be Slayer just because Kerry and Jeff were still writing the songs? Also, as much as im opposed to them not just renaming the band I would hardly call them a cover band. Saw them live with both lineups, they are still punishing.

Of course Slayer would still be Slayer, even more so cause king and Hanneman are the main songwriters anyway, it would definitely be a crazy turning point for Slayer if Araya left, cause his voice is obviously such an important feature of the band just like Igor's style in Sepultura, but it would still be Slayer and it would still be Sepultura. Put yourself in Kisser's shoes, would you decide you'd rather go back and start your whole career over (or find a new one) just because the other guy decided he didn't want to participate any more? he was also a part of those albums and those songs, why would he give up on them? Millions of bands have much more lineup changes than Sepultura and have no original members but for some reason people love to pick on Sepultura.

Edit: I agree on the comments about Kisser being simply a former roadie being retarded, the guy's a much better rhythm guitar player than Max without a shred of doubt, and he'll probably never match the songwriting of Max's riffs in Sep, but I don't think he's any worse than the latest Soulfly and CavaleraC albums

 

[Djabthrash]

Of course Slayer would still be Slayer, even more so cause king and Hanneman are the main songwriters anyway, it would definitely be a crazy turning point for Slayer if Araya left, cause his voice is obviously such an important feature of the band just like Igor's style in Sepultura, but it would still be Slayer and it would still be Sepultura. Put yourself in Kisser's shoes, would you decide you'd rather go back and start your whole career over (or find a new one) just because the other guy decided he didn't want to participate any more? he was also a part of those albums and those songs, why would he give up on them? Millions of bands have much more lineup changes than Sepultura and have no original members but for some reason people love to pick on Sepultura.

Edit: I agree on the comments about Kisser being simply a former roadie being retarded, the guy's a much better rhythm guitar player that Max without a shred of doubt, and he'll probably never match the songwriting of Max's riffs in Sep, but I don't think he's any worse than the latest Soulfly and CavaleraC albums

nicely put

For me, what matters most in this "is it still band X if founding members Y & Z left ?" issue, is that the remaining members can move on and keep writing music that sounds like the band but still with some nice evolution, and that they pay respect to the past legacy of the band. In the Sepultura case they did both.
Tho', judging the quality of the old legacy stuff vs the new stuff is a whole different story.

 

[Nuno Filipe]

Every song that I heard after max left, sounded very uninspired and for me Derrick sucks at trying be agressive. The other day I was seeing the dvd Sepultura - live In Sao Paulo, and there is a moment with other guests, and when the singer of krisium takes the mic, I couldnt believe how weak is derrick, well at least live. But not only, kisser now it´s a shadow of what he was back in the days. He is sloopy and doesnt do a lot of shit in the old songs. For what I heard I found CC and Soulfly much better.

 

[Djabthrash]

Every song that I heard after max left, sounded very uninspired and for me Derrick sucks at trying be agressive. The other day I was seeing the dvd Sepultura - live In Sao Paulo, and there is a moment with other guests, and when the singer of krisium takes the mic, I couldnt believe how weak is derrick, well at least live. But not only, kisser now it´s a shadow of what he was back in the days. He is sloopy and doesnt do a lot of shit in the old songs. For what I heard I found CC and Soulfly much better.

Saw them live a couple of months ago for the ThrashFest Classics where they played "legacy" material (from "beneath the remains" till' "chaos AD"), and Kisser was at the top of his game, super tight and everything.

 

[Manicompression]

Of course Slayer would still be Slayer, even more so cause king and Hanneman are the main songwriters anyway, it would definitely be a crazy turning point for Slayer if Araya left, cause his voice is obviously such an important feature of the band just like Igor's style in Sepultura, but it would still be Slayer and it would still be Sepultura. Put yourself in Kisser's shoes, would you decide you'd rather go back and start your whole career over (or find a new one) just because the other guy decided he didn't want to participate any more? he was also a part of those albums and those songs, why would he give up on them? Millions of bands have much more lineup changes than Sepultura and have no original members but for some reason people love to pick on Sepultura.

Edit: I agree on the comments about Kisser being simply a former roadie being retarded, the guy's a much better rhythm guitar player than Max without a shred of doubt, and he'll probably never match the songwriting of Max's riffs in Sep, but I don't think he's any worse than the latest Soulfly and CavaleraC albums

We are just gonna have to agree to disagree haha. In some cases I think its ok for people to continue on with the band name because the other kids decided to take their ball and go home. Alice in Chains for instance, Layne was an integral part of that band if mostly image wise, however I wouldnt disparage Jerry for wanting to tour and make some cash now that he can count his livelyhood on someone whos not a junkie because he never really had a chance. Also if you take into account what his draw and record sales were solo vs under the alice moniker it would seem to justify operating under the name alice in chains. With Sep it doesnt make that much sense to me because when I consider the audience they pulled then vs now I think the end result would be the same as if they just renamed it. The first couple of times I saw the classic lineup they played to a couple thousand on their own, now they come to town and play for 250 in a shithole club that my band plays sometimes. I think anyone who is really a fan of their recent output would still go and see them if they were called Andreas and friends. But again, I dont intend to downplay the quality of what they have done on their own, and Im far from an expert, I just think that without Max and Igor its not really Sep.