I need some help with some power metal sales figues.

[mel_progson]

I got into a debate with a fellow on facebook recently. I made a comment about Hammerfall pretty much single handedly bringing back power metal to the masses. He seemed to think they were helped along by a bunch of other bands but failed to name any examples.

What I want to know is, is there any specific sites that have album sales of bands like this? I wanna have a delve into mid to late 90s power metal sales to see what was going on. Cheers.

 

[Fire breath]

They were helped by Rhapsody, Stratovarius, Edguy and Nocturnal Rites to varying degrees. I'd say that Rhapsody had almost as much to do with the popularity of power metal in Europe in the late 90s as Hammerfall did although Hammerfall was definitely the initial surge. From my memory and magazines at the time people were going nuts over Rhapsody around 98. There was lots of "Have you heard Rhapsody? You've got to hear them they're something else!" happening.

As for figures I remember reading that the debut Hammerfall album sold 100k or more worldwide.

 

[AngraRULES]

In the 90s, Stratovarius, Hammerfall, Blind Guardian, Rhapsody and Angra (at least Angels Cry and Holy Land) sold incredibly well. But to say Hammerfall is single-handedly responsible for it is incorrect. Their debut sold less than Angra's Angels Cry and Stratovarius' Destiny.

 

[mel_progson]

I probably incorrectly worded what I was trying to say. I guess what I was really trying to put across is that the first Hammerfall album was the catalyst for the power metal explosion of the late 90s. It was the right album at the right time. Believe you me, power metal was so out of vogue before that album hit. I will give credit to Rhapsody and Strato for bolstering the scene. Edguy really didn't hit till a bit later. Glory to the Brave really was power metals Nevermind if you take my meaning.

 

[1000 Faces]

I got into a debate with a fellow on facebook recently. I made a comment about Hammerfall pretty much single handedly bringing back power metal to the masses. He seemed to think they were helped along by a bunch of other bands but failed to name any examples.

Gamma Ray, Helloween, Stratovarius, and (to a far lesser degree) Angra all "primed the pump" for HammerFall. I mean, come on...Insanity and Genius, Land of the Free, Master of the Rings, The Time of the Oath, Episode, Angels Cry, and Holy Land all came out well before Glory to the Brave. I don't know about sales figures, but having lived through that era, I do know that the power metal revival was underway long before HammerFall saw the inside of a recording studio.

 

[AngraRULES]

Which is not to say that Hammerfall caused a boom around the world (especially Europe and South America) when they appeared in 97 (as I was quickly and inappropriately reminded immediately after I posted here... thanks douche ). Glad to see that Mel rephrased himself and everything worked out.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

I don't know about sales figures, but having lived through that era, I do know that the power metal revival was underway long before HammerFall saw the inside of a recording studio.

That what I'd call a truth with modifications ...

Yes, there were a lot of bands already out there, and they sold to the people who had been fans of them for a long time.

However, when that first Hammerfall album dropped, it hit the media and the fan base like a ... hammer?!! (bad pun, I know).

I worked at a record store back then (the only one in Denmark selling ONLY heavy metal), and the reaction was crazy! People bought the disc faster than we could get copies in. And, within a month I had two different groups of people come up to me and tell me that they had started up Hammerfall tribute bands. How sick is that?

The media reaction to Hammerfall's debut was unlike anything else at that time. It was totally ridiculous.

So - there's no doubt that bands like Gamma Ray, Helloween, Blind Guardian, Angra, Stratovarius etc has been around for longer time than Hammerfall and all were in the middle of enjoying their career when Hammerfall came out - but it doesn't take away from the fact that Hammerfall started that "true metal invasion" that came out of the late 90's.

c.

 

[Comic Book Dude]

Was Hammerfall that important? I don't know....I have a few of their first cd's, and always felt that they were kinda generic, run-of-the-mill Warlord wannabees. Maybe that was their appeal.....generic enough that they would have wider acceptance? I think Iced Earth was causing some ripples around that time also.

 

[1000 Faces]

That what I'd call a truth with modifications ...

Yes, there were a lot of bands already out there, and they sold to the people who had been fans of them for a long time.

However, when that first Hammerfall album dropped, it hit the media and the fan base like a ... hammer?!! (bad pun, I know).

I worked at a record store back then (the only one in Denmark selling ONLY heavy metal), and the reaction was crazy! People bought the disc faster than we could get copies in. And, within a month I had two different groups of people come up to me and tell me that they had started up Hammerfall tribute bands. How sick is that?

The media reaction to Hammerfall's debut was unlike anything else at that time. It was totally ridiculous.

So - there's no doubt that bands like Gamma Ray, Helloween, Blind Guardian, Angra, Stratovarius etc has been around for longer time than Hammerfall and all were in the middle of enjoying their career when Hammerfall came out - but it doesn't take away from the fact that Hammerfall started that "true metal invasion" that came out of the late 90's.

c.

Fair enough. I suppose that I should mention that I live in America, and at the time the import scene was all about the albums I mention above (and also Blind Guardian, who I can't believe I neglected to mention considering that Imaginations from the Other Side is my favorite album from the era and kind of helps to prove my point, considering that BG was big enough at the time that it was produced by the same guy who did Master of Puppets and ...And Justice for All). European power metal didn't begin to get real distribution in the U.S. until around 2000; thankfully, I lived near a record store that had a huge metal import section, so I ended up doing all right for myself.

 

[skyrefuge]

I think Claus has the truth of it. I don't have any numbers to back me up, but my feeling was very similar to his (even though I was in the US).

Hammerfall was essentially the Dragonforce of their era: a band that hugely expanded the power metal fanbase by attracting fans from *outside* the genre. Those of us bitter old-schoolers who had been listening to Blind Guardian or Heavens Gate or Angra all the way through were like "WTF? Why is *Hammerfall* the band that suddenly gets all the attention?! That's totally not fair!!!"

It was released by Nuclear Blast, a label that for its first 10 years had produced nothing but death/dark metal, and one that had much better distribution (in the US) than most "power metal" labels. So Nuclear Blast releasing a power metal album came totally out of left field, and it surely attracted the attention of metal fans who weren't card-carrying melodic metal fans, who up to that point had been unaware/uninterested in the more "underground" power metal scene that had been struggling along in Europe.

The other album that made 1997 *the* year for the return of heavy metal from its mid-90s depths was Bruce Dickinson's 'Accident of Birth'. The wider metal fanbase said "whoa, classic heavy metal with real singers is BACK!" Of course melodic metal had never actually gone away completely, but this wider audience wasn't aware of it. 'Glory to the Brave' and 'Accident of Birth' brought the news to people who had given up and switched to listening to Dismember instead.

Their debut sold less than Angra's Angels Cry

Source? I would be shocked if this was true for the US.

Neil

 

[Claus / Intromental]

Was Hammerfall that important? I don't know....I have a few of their first cd's, and always felt that they were kinda generic, run-of-the-mill Warlord wannabees. Maybe that was their appeal.....generic enough that they would have wider acceptance?

They were VERY important. The German media (which, let's face it, is 95% of the "deciding" factor in what becomes a hit in Europe) heralded that band as the one and true heir to Accept. With that happening, and the band immediately being booked on huge tours (Deep Purple bringing them around europe!!) Hammerfall became "media darlings" all over Europe, and you couldn't open a magazine without them getting huge coverage.

I think Iced Earth was causing some ripples around that time also.

Yes, they were around, and yes they were selling albums by the bucketload (well, not really) ... however, the "true metal" wave got it's kick in the ass by Hammerfall. Iced Earth were already out and about when Hammerfall "imploded" onto the scene.

 

[AngraRULES]

Hammerfall was essentially the Dragonforce of their era: a band that hugely expanded the power metal fanbase by attracting fans from *outside* the genre. Those of us bitter old-schoolers who had been listening to Blind Guardian or Heavens Gate or Angra all the way through were like "WTF? Why is *Hammerfall* the band that suddenly gets all the attention?! That's totally not fair!!!"

This.

Source? I would be shocked if this was true for the US.

Neil

Within the first year, Angels Cry sold 106,000 copies in Japan alone. I'll get you the exact source if that makes you feel better. Would be curious to find out worldwide. They have other impressive sales numbers in the 90s, so I wouldn't be surprised.

Just a reminder, there's more to the world than the US. Of course, when I'm talking about sales of a Progressive/Power metal album that came out in the 90s, I wouldn't be talking about sales in the US alone. I figured that was too much common sense to explain.

 

[Harvester]

Source? I would be shocked if this was true for the US.

Neil

I'm with you. In fact, I'd state the same for everywhere save South America.

 

[AngraRULES]

I'm with you. In fact, I'd state the same for everywhere save South America.

Do you have the actual number for Legacy of Kings? Did it really sell THAT much more? I've always been under the impression their subsequent albums sold much more than that one.

 

[Harvester]

Do you have the actual number for Legacy of Kings? .

I dont' have the exact numbers, but when an underground metal band actually gets reviewed in Billboard Magazine, there is an impact:

http://www.billboard.com/album/hamm...lbum/hammerfall/legacy-of-kings/323881/review

From that review:

After breaking sales records and shocking everyone with their music's stunning popularity, the lineup of Joacim Cans (vocals), Patrik Räfling (drums), Oscar Dronjak (guitars), Stefan Elmgren (guitars), and Magus Rosén (bass) returned to the studio greatly encouraged by their success and the unbelievable re-emergence of the power metal they practiced.

 

[AngraRULES]

I dont' have the exact numbers, but when an underground metal band actually gets reviewed in Billboard Magazine, there is an impact:

http://www.billboard.com/album/hamm...lbum/hammerfall/legacy-of-kings/323881/review

From that review:

After breaking sales records and shocking everyone with their music's stunning popularity, the lineup of Joacim Cans (vocals), Patrik Räfling (drums), Oscar Dronjak (guitars), Stefan Elmgren (guitars), and Magus Rosén (bass) returned to the studio greatly encouraged by their success and the unbelievable re-emergence of the power metal they practiced.

Wow, I had no idea about that. What I just realized though, is that I actually wanted to sales figures for their debut, Glory to the Brave. Still, the Billboard thing is news to me.

Impressive.

 

[Comic Book Dude]

They were VERY important. The German media (which, let's face it, is 95% of the "deciding" factor in what becomes a hit in Europe) heralded that band as the one and true heir to Accept. With that happening, and the band immediately being booked on huge tours (Deep Purple bringing them around europe!!) Hammerfall became "media darlings" all over Europe, and you couldn't open a magazine without them getting huge coverage.

Thanks for the info....I had been buying metal since the mid eighties, so Hammerfall wasn't that big a deal for me, but I have to plead ignorance about what the metal press in Europe and Germany was saying about them. Learn something new every day!

 

[1000 Faces]

I'm with you. In fact, I'd state the same for everywhere save South America.

Angels Cry wasn't even released in the U.S. until 1999. Technically, it's probably sold fewer copies here than Dedicated to Chaos sold last week.

 

[AngraRULES]

Angels Cry wasn't even released in the U.S. until 1999. Technically, it's probably sold fewer copies here than Queensryche sold last week.

LMAO In the US alone, you are probably right.

Then again, we all know that the country is known for having excellent sales figures for awful releases.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

Do you have the actual number for Legacy of Kings? Did it really sell THAT much more? I've always been under the impression their subsequent albums sold much more than that one.

Legacy of Kings was the second disc.
Glory to the Brave was the debut.