1 hour til St. Anger vid on Channel V
- Thread starter The Amazer
- Start date
Lord Tim
That guy from LORD
Why you little...! *shakes fist* HAHAHAHA!
Seriously, our stance on that is we know the album is being traded by people and we can't stop it. It's fucked but what can you do? If you come down hard on everyone who has a ripped copy of our album then you're just pissing off people who would otherwise probably enjoy your shows and tell their friends they like what you do.
I really don't have that much of a problem of people trading the occasional Dungeon MP3 since it sometimes introduces new fans to the band who ultimately end up buying our albums anyway. And with the albums, you get the lyrics, the sleeve and sometimes even stuff like posters and stickers which you can't get anywhere else, so the album becomes more enticing to buy that way anyway.
What we *do* get upset about is servers hosting the entire album for download, whether it be ours or other struggling bands like us. I remember a while ago there was someone hosting the entire last album from Alchemist... The first thing I did was let the guys know so they could take some action against it.
I can see where Metallica are coming from with their argument and essentially they're right, people stealing your music sucks and it's losing you sales to some degree but the issue I have with it is:
1. Lars is a dick and the way he went about it was really lame.
2. Metallica are BIG business. If they lose 10% of their sales from trading, so what? They get 9 million a year instead of 10 million. Poor kids!
3. It's gonna get traded anyway, let's face it. If it's not on Napster, it's on Kazza or Audiogalaxy or WinMX or IRC or wherever. You can't stop it so you should find other ways to offset the loss without pissing off the most important people in the world: the fans.
*ahem* Does this soapbox belong to anyone?
Seriously, our stance on that is we know the album is being traded by people and we can't stop it. It's fucked but what can you do? If you come down hard on everyone who has a ripped copy of our album then you're just pissing off people who would otherwise probably enjoy your shows and tell their friends they like what you do.
I really don't have that much of a problem of people trading the occasional Dungeon MP3 since it sometimes introduces new fans to the band who ultimately end up buying our albums anyway. And with the albums, you get the lyrics, the sleeve and sometimes even stuff like posters and stickers which you can't get anywhere else, so the album becomes more enticing to buy that way anyway.
What we *do* get upset about is servers hosting the entire album for download, whether it be ours or other struggling bands like us. I remember a while ago there was someone hosting the entire last album from Alchemist... The first thing I did was let the guys know so they could take some action against it.
I can see where Metallica are coming from with their argument and essentially they're right, people stealing your music sucks and it's losing you sales to some degree but the issue I have with it is:
1. Lars is a dick and the way he went about it was really lame.
2. Metallica are BIG business. If they lose 10% of their sales from trading, so what? They get 9 million a year instead of 10 million. Poor kids!
3. It's gonna get traded anyway, let's face it. If it's not on Napster, it's on Kazza or Audiogalaxy or WinMX or IRC or wherever. You can't stop it so you should find other ways to offset the loss without pissing off the most important people in the world: the fans.
*ahem* Does this soapbox belong to anyone?
Celestial-Todd
The Incredible Bulk
I look at it this way, every good album I've downloaded I have then gone out and bought. The crap one I delete!
- Well I think he was just trying to do everything in his power (which he has a lot of) to try and prevent the whole internet music piracy thing. I think it took balls when he knew there was going to be a backlash.
- Metallica didn't do it for Metallica, they have said they did it for all the struggling bands who DO get wiped out by this sort of thing.
- Napster was the most widespread and well-known one of the time I guess.
Blitzkrieg
Master Exploder
Thats exactly right. Metal fans have more passion for the actual media. I know I will never forget the first time I got some of my now favourite cds home, and listened to them for the first time. The experience is so much different to that of just downloading something and if its ok, burning it. Mp3s have assisted me in getting into about half of my favourite bands, including Iced Earth, Dungeon, Nevermore, Grave Digger, Blind Guardian, Symphony X, ect, and I have bought albums from all these bands because of mp3s.
I think they assist in getting real bands exposure, and also are bad for manufactured music that has no lasting value, as people will just burn it, but that doesn't bother me, as I am not really interested in other genres of the music industry anyway.
I think they assist in getting real bands exposure, and also are bad for manufactured music that has no lasting value, as people will just burn it, but that doesn't bother me, as I am not really interested in other genres of the music industry anyway.
oh, I very much agree.
If it weren't for mp3s, I wouldn't be into Type O Negative, who I now fucking adore.
But there are always people who just download mp3s and never buy albums, which causes some bands to not make it, even though they're good enough to do so.
If it weren't for mp3s, I wouldn't be into Type O Negative, who I now fucking adore.
But there are always people who just download mp3s and never buy albums, which causes some bands to not make it, even though they're good enough to do so.
salty
Member
Ive watched the video a whole shitbag of times now.
And I think I gotta say I really dig the song now. Cant wait to hear the album!
And I think I gotta say I really dig the song now. Cant wait to hear the album!
yeah, I love it when it takes a few listens to really get into a song. The first time I heard the live clip of it I was really confused, but then once I got the feel of the song I shat my pants.
Goreripper
Metal as fuck
Lord Tim
That guy from LORD
ceydn said:
OK, to go through those...
Sure, I agree it took major balls to do that, and yes they may have been entirely selfless for the reason they did it (although I don't buy that for a second myself) and yes, Napster was the most widespread medium for trade at the time...
BUT! What did they ultimately achieve? Not a goddamn thing! Well, except for making Metallica look like greedy cunts! Whether that's true or not is irrelevant, that's how they came off looking to most people!
The thing they didn't realise is, this is an age where broadband is commonplace and even if their album isn't hosted on Napster, it'll be on some other trading medium or swapped over e-mail or even CD traded (much like the tape trading that Metallica once whole-heartedly embraced early on in their careers). And it's only gonna get worse. Almost any copy-protection scheme can be bypassed and there's already a backlash against some of them since they can't be played in certain drives/players.
Metallica achieved nothing but a PR disaster in the end and totally lost the respect of hundreds of thousands of people. Add in an image change and a stylistic change geared towards the mainstream media and you have something very different to the ideals with which they started and most people were attracted to them in the first place.
They died after the Black album to me and I have to admit, it's gonna take a lot of work to get me back as a fan... and from what I've seen so far, I don't think it's gonna happen!
If you believe that Metallica sued Napster to stick up for all the struggling bands who don't make much money then you'll believe anything.
I see mp3's as a 'try before you buy' kind of thing. You wouldn't walk into a record store and buy a cd from some band you've never heard of. I think that mp3's expose the music to a wider range of people and in many cases expand the fan base, but of course with any technology there's always going to be side effects and people who abuse it.
Personally I have discovered many international underground bands from overseas through mp3 downloads. With many of these bands their music isn't available in the stores here and they don't import the cd's, so the only way to listen to their music is through the internet.
People who only have burned cd's probably don't have much spending money. If they did, I think that they'd rather buy the actual cd than download all the songs and burn them on a blank cd, because a cd you buy in a store is more than just the recorded music - it's an entire package, with lyrics, pictures and multimedia components. Even if someone never buys a real cd, if they like a band enough then they might buy a t-shirt or tickets to a concert anyway, so at least they get a bit of money - it's better than nothing.
Anyway, that's just my take on this controversial issue.
I see mp3's as a 'try before you buy' kind of thing. You wouldn't walk into a record store and buy a cd from some band you've never heard of. I think that mp3's expose the music to a wider range of people and in many cases expand the fan base, but of course with any technology there's always going to be side effects and people who abuse it.
Personally I have discovered many international underground bands from overseas through mp3 downloads. With many of these bands their music isn't available in the stores here and they don't import the cd's, so the only way to listen to their music is through the internet.
People who only have burned cd's probably don't have much spending money. If they did, I think that they'd rather buy the actual cd than download all the songs and burn them on a blank cd, because a cd you buy in a store is more than just the recorded music - it's an entire package, with lyrics, pictures and multimedia components. Even if someone never buys a real cd, if they like a band enough then they might buy a t-shirt or tickets to a concert anyway, so at least they get a bit of money - it's better than nothing.
Anyway, that's just my take on this controversial issue.
Goreripper
Metal as fuck
I agree with so much of the above! What Timmah said about Metallica was spot on.
I also use mps as a way of sampling music. I've got into soooo many bands as a result of mp3s. I usually download a track out of curiosity, and if I like it I download 2 or 3 more from the same band or album. If it's all good, then I'll go and buy the album and delete the mp3s. Simple!
I don't know why people like to download and burn whole albums, because the sound quality of mp3s is so inferior anyway. I guess yeah it's perhaps a case of "better on mp3 than not at all"......or perhaps people like something enough to download it, but not to buy it.
I also use mps as a way of sampling music. I've got into soooo many bands as a result of mp3s. I usually download a track out of curiosity, and if I like it I download 2 or 3 more from the same band or album. If it's all good, then I'll go and buy the album and delete the mp3s. Simple!
I don't know why people like to download and burn whole albums, because the sound quality of mp3s is so inferior anyway. I guess yeah it's perhaps a case of "better on mp3 than not at all"......or perhaps people like something enough to download it, but not to buy it.
Blitzkrieg
Master Exploder
For anyone else who hasn't seen the St Anger clip yet, it is the first thing to be shown on Rage tonight, which according to their website, will be shown at 11:50pm tonight.
That is all.
That is all.
Southy
Proud Brisbane Metaller
Spiff
I have the power
Alrighty, just watched the video and listened to the song. My thoughts:
* Good song. It would be a great song if a) the drum sound was better (I'm guessing they recorded it like that on purpose... but why??) and b) if it didn't just keep going on and on and on.
* Nothing wrong with James's's voice IMO.
* Just keeps going on and on and on.
* And on.
* There's NO reason why there shouldn't be a solo in that song.
* I'm guessing this will be a lot better live.
* And on.
* Good song. It would be a great song if a) the drum sound was better (I'm guessing they recorded it like that on purpose... but why??) and b) if it didn't just keep going on and on and on.
* Nothing wrong with James's's voice IMO.
* Just keeps going on and on and on.
* And on.
* There's NO reason why there shouldn't be a solo in that song.
* I'm guessing this will be a lot better live.
* And on.
Mark
Not blessed, or merciful
Just a point (ie, my opinion) on the whole napster/mp3/download thing: the real issue isn't that mp3's take away from sales of CDs, and in the end hurt young bands trying to get signed.
Yes, young bands get hurt when they're dropped from labels, or can't get signed. But this is due to labels pouring all of their money into developing novelty acts, and therefore depriving fresh, new, *talented* acts of a chance to be heard.
The only ones labels can blame for any problems they have is themselves. Their sales have slumped not because of downloading, but because they're putting out less product, and the product they DO put out is shit. Which no serious music buyers (ie, the ones who stick with bands in the long term) will purchase.
If labels spent all the money they pour into Washington lobbying against online file sharing, and the money they spend on sucking up to senators to pass bills through congress, they could invest in new artists that will provide more solid income in the future.
I admire Lars' courage in making a stand, it's just a pity it was more a stand his label and lawyers pushed him into taking rather than one that's really "for the kids". He forgot his legacy, and his band's beginnings. Instead he became a corporate stooge, and suffered for it.
*ahem*
Anyway, haven't heard the new song yet, but I cannae wait!
Yes, young bands get hurt when they're dropped from labels, or can't get signed. But this is due to labels pouring all of their money into developing novelty acts, and therefore depriving fresh, new, *talented* acts of a chance to be heard.
The only ones labels can blame for any problems they have is themselves. Their sales have slumped not because of downloading, but because they're putting out less product, and the product they DO put out is shit. Which no serious music buyers (ie, the ones who stick with bands in the long term) will purchase.
If labels spent all the money they pour into Washington lobbying against online file sharing, and the money they spend on sucking up to senators to pass bills through congress, they could invest in new artists that will provide more solid income in the future.
I admire Lars' courage in making a stand, it's just a pity it was more a stand his label and lawyers pushed him into taking rather than one that's really "for the kids". He forgot his legacy, and his band's beginnings. Instead he became a corporate stooge, and suffered for it.
*ahem*
Anyway, haven't heard the new song yet, but I cannae wait!
dreamwatch
Syntax error
Here here beaor, very well said.
So, when is UM Records going to sink it's teeth into the market?
So, when is UM Records going to sink it's teeth into the market?
Mark
Not blessed, or merciful
Spiff said:
Yes, its true, there's only three riffs in the whole song.
But that's one of the things I really love about it... its a repetitiveness that flows. Kind of like one of my fav Type O Negative songs "Can't Lose You"
That song is 6:30 mins long, one riff and the only lyrics are: "No I can't lose you"
But you don't get bored.
At least I don't
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