5150 or ENGL? (or Blackstar HT-5, Egnater Tweaker, or Orange Tiny Terror?)

[Virgil.]

Hey peeps... I need some help deciding which amp to get...

So, I'm on the prowl for a new high-gain amp head, and after many months of searching and dealing with craigslist and ebay bullshit, I finally found two amps at decent prices that I'm going to test out tomorrow...

5150 1st generation for $600 (I'm not sure if this is a good deal or not. Maybe experienced 5150 buyers can let me know?)

and

ENGL Thunder 50w for $500

Which would you go for?

I know the obvious answer would probably be the 5150, but I'm looking for something versatile to do both cleans and high-gain stuff. I know the ENGL cleans up pretty good, but the 5150 doesn't. I also live in a community where I need to keep the volume rather low, so I would never be able to push the 5150 past probably 1 or 2 (7-8 o'clock). I'm also sort of low on cash so I'm thinking about going for the cheaper priced head.

I will be running either head into my Mesa 2x12 recto and I will most definitely probably have a TS9, NS-2 and Compressor in the chain.

Also, I play mostly metal, but I also love to mess around with really spacey ambient post-rock type stuff, so the cleans on the ENGL are appealing to me more-so than on a 5150.

Any recommendations or suggestions you can give me before I go test either out would be a great help! (I have no idea how to tell if an amp is in good condition other than signs of wear, or making sure tubes glow/heat evenly.... so any advice in this area would be great too.)

Thanks in advance for any advice!

PS - if these don't work out, I'm going to say screw the buy-used game for now and will probably end-up picking up a Blackstar HT-5, Egnater Tweaker (or Rebel) series head, or an Orange Tiny Terror and using a screamer to boost the shit out of whichever of them I get for the high-gainy stuff. These might be more suited to the post-rock stuff I want to do anyway.... idk.

Edit: I should also note that I will want to use whatever amp head I get for recording as well. And I probably won't be gigging anytime soon in the next year seeing how I'm not even in a band atm. lol

 

[BenoA]

Do you plan playing with a band? From your post no. Can you cranck the amp you are going to buy, if not 5150 (I own a 6505) and the 50 watts ENGL sound both overkill to me.

I played (some months ago) the HT-5 and Egnater Rebel 20 side by side. Prefered the Egnater for its more Marshall flavor. I didn't bond with the Blackstar but I know many likes them. Can't comment on the Orange.

Have you ever played the AMT pedals like the E-1 (Engl) and P-1 (5150)? Both could be a nice add-on to a Blackstar/Egnater or other small head you could grab. I have the E-1 and it sounds quite decent. Sorry don't have a demo of it doing metal, I just did a stupid remake of a Black Eyed Peas tune with it: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10663847

Haven't got much time lately to play with my gear...

 

[Virgil.]

Thanks for the reply. I would like to play in a band, but I live in a very rural area of town (so it takes a lot of time driving places), and with my work and school schedule and keeping time with the fam, I don't see me playing in a band for a while. So, for now, whatever I get will be just for "bedroom" jamming and recording. I was considering getting an ENGL e530 preamp, but part of me wants an amp that I could use away from just sitting at my recording desk... you know, sitting in front of a real amp. I could always buy a poweramp to run with an e530, but that then puts me WAYYYY past my budget of $600.

I played the HT-5 at a local guitar center last week, and I liked it, but I was only able to play with what gain was on the amp... they didn't have a TS for me to test out with it so I didn't get a good feel of whether or not it can do "teh br00talz".

The Tiny Terror I was able to play with a TS9, but the only thing I didn't like was that there weren't a lot of EQ options, and it was very fuzzy. (or "angry bee" as Ola would put it. )

 

[AdamG94]

Peavey's do bedroom volumes well, at least my 6505 does. I find that there is more fizz in the tone with the post gain below 2 but it's an acceptable trade-off for the lower volume.

I also find that the 5150/6505 cleans up really well, switch to passive pick-ups (ideally single coil), lower the pre-gain and raise the post gain, and EQ to taste and you can get a more than passable clean tone, in fact I quite like the clean tone from my 6505.

That being said, neither the ENGL or the 5150 offer all the tones you want IMO and ENGL's don't do cleaner tones that much better than 5150's in my experience (I've played a Savage, Blackmore sig, Fireball and Thunder 50).

Personally I'd have the Peavey, since everyone needs a 5150 aha.

 

[Virgil.]

If I get the 5150... I guess I could always get an attenuator perhaps? (I have no idea though what kind to get or how much they cost or how to hook it up. haha)

Edit: nevermind, just saw the "Hot Plate" ones that run ~$300. Pfffft.

 

[AdamG94]

I don't know what it's like in the US, but the HT-5 is £250 over here so I'd get the 5150 and a HT-5 instead of a hotplate

The 5150 would be ideal for recording, since a lot of bands don't have great amps, but if volume is that much of a problem then the HT-5 or tweaker would probably be a better option.

 

[Virgil.]

I don't know what it's like in the US, but the HT-5 is £250 over here so I'd get the 5150 and a HT-5 instead of a hotplate

The 5150 would be ideal for recording, since a lot of bands don't have great amps, but if volume is that much of a problem then the HT-5 or tweaker would probably be a better option.

The HT-5 is $329 US and the 5150 used is $600 (or a 6505 new for $1000 -- which I can't afford). I get it though... it would make sense to get the 5150, and if I needed a lower volume amp, to just buy a HT-5 instead of the Hot Plate considering they are essentially the same cost.

Ola's HT-5 videos are making me GAS for the Blackstar more than anything, and I would save a lot of cash. I would also get warranties and the assurance that I'm getting a good amp, instead of buying used and not knowing any issues with it ahead of time. I do know the 5150 I'm looking at had heating issues at one point, but he said his neighbor nextdoor works for Fender and took it apart and "cleaned it". So idk. And the guy selling the ENGL has changed his story a couple of times... he said he bought it new for $1000, and just doesn't like it, so he's selling it for $500. And now he's telling me he traded his ESP Horizons guitar for it 2 months ago and it just doesn't sound as good as his Mesa Mark IV so he wants to sell it. I swear craigslist people are all shady.

 

[AdamG94]

Glad you got that point, subtlety is usually lost over the internet aha. Also you have two amps, and satisfy G.A.S at the same time

I would also get warranties and the assurance that I'm getting a good amp, instead of buying used and not knowing any issues with it ahead of time.

The sole reason I saved the extra for my 6505 over a used 5150. Buying used is always a gamble, but it can pay off.

The ENGL guy seems to shady to trust IMO, but if you do want an ENGL the Gigmaster is always an option and with its lower wattage it fits the description better.

 

[Virgil.]

Glad you got that point, subtlety is usually lost over the internet aha. Also you have two amps, and satisfy G.A.S at the same time


The sole reason I saved the extra for my 6505 over a used 5150. Buying used is always a gamble, but it can pay off.

The ENGL guy seems to shady to trust IMO, but if you do want an ENGL the Gigmaster is always an option and with its lower wattage it fits the description better.

Yeah, the minute the Engl guy changed his story red flags started going up in my head. If he was the original owner, then I might buy it...but why would he sell it for HALF of what he paid for it 2 months ago if it was supposedly new?!? (RED FLAG). Oh well...
And I wish I had enough cash to just get the gigmaster... but it's $750 US. haha. So I don't have enough for it unfortunately.

If I didn't need an amp to play on right now, I would just save up and wait and buy a 6505 new or something.... but I sold both of my amps to combine the cash for an "upgrade". All I have now is playing on my POD x3 through my monitors. haha. So I'm jonesing for something "real" to play on. I just purchased the Mesa 2x12, now all I'm missing is an amp head. :Spin:

 

[dan weapon]

5150/6505 all the way man, I know that seems like a cliched thing to say on this forum but it rules and mics up so well.

I have had a Diezel VH4 since 2005 but bought a 6505 a year or so later and don't regret it at all even though it is a 'lesser' amp than the VH4. It just has such a great tone for both live and in the studio.

IMHO, of course.

 

[BenoA]

Following all of the above, the 6505 is the way to go. I still think to really feel that amp you need to cranck it at some point. The louder the better.

I still don't know why Peavey hasn't jumped the mini amp craze. I bet "min-6505" would sell like hot cakes.

In the mean time, how about the 6505 1x12 combo? Cheap and you could use it with your 2x12... Never played one but bet they sound good.

 

[Virgil.]

Well... I just got back from Guitar Center, and the HT-5, Orange TT, and Egnater's are all out of the question for me atm. I'm going to see how these used amps turn out and get one of them--whichever one is in better condition. The Orange TT was my favorite out of those 3 low-wattage amps... it still maintained a very crisp tone at high-gain, whereas the others ended up getting muddy and what I played wasn't all that defined. If that makes sense. Even with a TS9 in front of them, the Orange slaughtered all of them. But, at the end of the day, the TT still didn't completely wow me. If the ENGL or 5150 doesn't work out, I'm probably just going to hold off on buying anything and then just save up until I find the right deal.

Anywho, so if anyone else has any suggestions on what to look /test for for both the ENGL and the 5150, that would be great considering I'm gonna give them both a test drive tomorrow.

Following all of the above, the 6505 is the way to go. I still think to really feel that amp you need to cranck it at some point. The louder the better.

I still don't know why Peavey hasn't jumped the mini amp craze. I bet "min-6505" would sell like hot cakes.

In the mean time, how about the 6505 1x12 combo? Cheap and you could use it with your 2x12... Never played one but bet they sound good.

I SO wish they had a low-wattage 6505!!!!! That would rock. (Edit: not counting the combo)

And I'm not too big of a fan of the combo amps. It's a good suggestion, but I'm not feeling it really. I think it would end up being a waste considering I already have a 2x12, and I think the v30's would sound better than the sheffields peavey normally shove in their combo 6505/5150 amps. I know you suggested just bypassing the built in speaker and plugging it into my combo... but it just seems pricey. They are lower wattage, but I also want to consider the re-sell value... and from my experience... combos are always much harder to sell than a separate amp head / cab set.

Does anyone know if the 6505 circuitry in the 112 combos vary much from the heads? (aside from the lower wattage)?

Anywho, the 5150 I can get for $550; and the cheapest 6505 112 combo is $600. Since I already have a cab, I think it'd just be a waste unless there is significant improvement in the circuitry or something from the 5150 head that I'm missing or not understanding.

 

[BenoA]

As I suggested above, and in the mean time, you could try this:

I got the E1 (ENGL version) and it's a fun pedal. Sounds even good a band level.

 

[AdamG94]

I SO wish they had a low-wattage 6505!!!!! That would rock. (Edit: not counting the combo).

Isn't there a 5153 50 watt head? not exactly low wattage though.

Does anyone know if the 6505 circuitry in the 112 combos vary much from the heads? (aside from the lower wattage)?

According to the comparison thread, there's a significant difference between the combo and the head. And if I remember correctly it's that the combo's sound little like the head, doesn't mean that they're bad, just don't have that 5150 sound I guess.

 

[Virgil.]

Isn't there a 5153 50 watt head? not exactly low wattage though.


According to the comparison thread, there's a significant difference between the combo and the head. And if I remember correctly it's that the combo's sound little like the head, doesn't mean that they're bad, just don't have that 5150 sound I guess.

Oh, well I guess he (or we) meant more of a low wattage in the sense of a 15w or 5w head or in the same price range of those ($300-$700), instead of the $1k+ for the 5150 III.

@BenoA - I will have to check those pedals out for sure. Thanks for the recommendation!

 

[Chainsaw Calligraphy]

Have you tried anything by Jet City? They make 20w and 50w heads that should be in your price range. I've never tried one personally, but I know they have a great clean tone. The 50 and 100 watt versions have plenty of gain on tap too so they should do the br00tz. From what I understand the circuit they use was copied from a Soldano amp but they are mass produced on the cheap in China.

 

[Virgil.]

Have you tried anything by Jet City? They make 20w and 50w heads that should be in your price range. I've never tried one personally, but I know they have a great clean tone. The 50 and 100 watt versions have plenty of gain on tap too so they should do the br00tz. From what I understand the circuit they use was copied from a Soldano amp but they are mass produced on the cheap in China.

The guitar center by my place only had Jet City once, and that was back when I wasn't in the market for an amp and never tested it out. They don't carry them anymore, and I'm mad I never tried one out whilst I had the chance. Aren't the Egnater's made in China too? and Blackstar's?

 

[BenoA]

I had forgot about those Jet City. Played the 20w head a few months back. From what I remember, sounded good but would have needed a boost to jump into 6505 territory of gain.

Yep, Jet City, Blackstar, Egnater... All those small amp head are made in China. Even the cheaper 1x12 6505+ combo is made in China.

I think the ENGL Gigmaster is made in Germany as it's quite expensive for a 15w.

I just thought about this. You could check out the Vypyr 30w head from Peavey. OK, it's a modeler but it has a 6505 sim in it and a bunch of FX. These go for 189$ I think. Could be a fun and cheap alternative. If you go back to GC, check it out and keep us posted.

 

[Virgil.]

I had forgot about those Jet City. Played the 20w head a few months back. From what I remember, sounded good but would have needed a boost to jump into 6505 territory of gain.

Yep, Jet City, Blackstar, Egnater... All those small amp head are made in China. Even the cheaper 1x12 6505+ combo is made in China.

I think the ENGL Gigmaster is made in Germany as it's quite expensive for a 15w.

I just thought about this. You could check out the Vypyr 30w head from Peavey. OK, it's a modeler but it has a 6505 sim in it and a bunch of FX. These go for 189$ I think. Could be a fun and cheap alternative. If you go back to GC, check it out and keep us posted.

Hahahaha, I actually just sold my Peavey Vypyr tube 60w combo amp.

I wanted to get completely away from a modeler amp and get a real tube amp. Trying to mic that amp always had horrible results, and it just seemed like a waste of money. I wanted something that I could practice with, as well as record with, so I got rid of it and sold one of my guitars as well. I used some of the cash to get a used Mesa 2x12, and with the rest I plan on getting an all tube head. I'm gonna see how this ENGL and 5150 sound from the guys on craigslist, so if you know of anything specifically that I should look for while testing them out, that would be great. If they don't work out, I may end up just waiting and saving up for an AxeFX+poweramp rig instead.

 

[Virgil.]

Random question for all of you...

Is a Mesa Dual Recto 2x12 combo for $800 a good buy?

Or $700 for a Mesa Single Recto?

(Sorry for all these n00b'ish questions, but I'm not too familiar with real tube amps as I've never had enough to buy one. But I REAAAALLLLLLLLY appreciate all of your guys' help! )