A first for me

[scorpio01169]

I went to a friends studio to help out, (for free) and the drummer who they warned me was stubborn and couldn't play to a click track. so there are parts where the guitar was playing alone so i suggested that when those parts are playing that he do it old school and hit the hi hat to keep time, he said no cause he follows the guitar player ( who himself can't play to a click track). so everytime they were to play together they would be off timing of each other.I tried explaining to them that there has to be some sort of timing source when the drums cut out and come back in. but these guys were not trying hearing me. the singer was the only one who understood and was trying so hard to get those guys to understand (poor guy). so it got to the point that the drummer was trying to blame me for why they couldn't keep time by suggesting that record his drums.....then match the click track to his drums afterwards. after four hours on one song keep in my we were just tracking drums and a scratch guitar track. i finally told my friend that I'm sorry i cant help him and that I had to go. so i left. I love recording bands, so this was a first time for me cutting my losses, but if i didn't leave i would have lost all my love for music and recording.

 

[Notuern]

If I ever got in a situation like that, I would become a total asshole.
Id probably say something like "You guys wont ever get good in anything you do.", and just leave.
But on the other hand, im not aiming to be that professional guy that everybody loves, but I cant just stand people who honestly think that they know anything about music, when they clearly dont.

 

[scorpio01169]

the hard part of what i had to do was try to act as i wasn't mad. i stayed polite and when i said i had to go, i lied and said my wife needed me for something. not just telling these dudes they suck was so hard.

 

[Metaltastic]

Damn dude, you have the patience of a saint for making it as far as you did with a good (or at least neutral) attitude - but yeah, I'd say jumping ship was definitely a good idea!

 

[greyskull]

its so tragic when this sort of thing happens!!
like... " Oh i CAN play to a click but i just dont like it" bollocks!

Click it out... or get out

 

[Metaltastic]

"Shit or get off the pot," to use one of my favorite locutions

 

[Executioner213]

I usually try to talk up the benefits of recording to a click to bands, and they think it's a great idea. But when I get them set up to record, we make about 3 takes and they say "fuck it" and just go at thier normal pace. I tell them about how it will make things easier and sound better in the end, but nobody seems to be willing to work with a click, in my experience.

 

[scorpio01169]

I usually try to talk up the benefits of recording to a click to bands, and they think it's a great idea. But when I get them set up to record, we make about 3 takes and they say "fuck it" and just go at thier normal pace. I tell them about how it will make things easier and sound better in the end, but nobody seems to be willing to work with a click, in my experience.

I tried all that. but Mr drummer was like "we have our way of doing things". and yet it wasn't working. All the way home i was thinking it would look bad on me for walking out on this session, but this drummer was trying to make me look like i didn't know what the fuck I was talking about, these guys were not paying me so it was best that I left before I told them how i felt.

 

[Metaltastic]

Dude, it would've made you look way worse if a product with horrible timing came out with your name on it as producer/engineer!

 

[Glenn Fricker]

On the issue of click:

I've certainly taken some flak over the years for insisting on a click. But, every band that's given me a hard time has always thanked me in the end, saying something like "wow, that made us waaaay tighter."

Generally, I'll make sure the band is well practiced to a click for about a month before tracking begins. I had one group start to bitch & whine, then I hit them with this: "If you can't play to a click, then you can't do it. You guys are trying to make a pro-level record, right? How about some pro-level musicianship out of you then?" That shut 'em up. Argument: over.


Had a phone call from a band that wanted me to mix: I told them I wouldn't even look at their project if it's not to a click. Not worth my time.


Scorpio, in your situation, when you walked in the room, the first thing you should have asked was "where's the click?"
Of course the reply would have been, "We don't have one. We have our 'own way'"
To which your reply should have been, "Sorry guys, but I don't waste my time on lost causes. Call me when you grow up."
And then you should have left... ...even before hearing a single note. That would have got the point across.

 

[colonel kurtz]

"we have our way of doing things"

the proper reply to which is "amateur hour's over, bitch"

in all seriousness though, i understand where you're coming from...but i would've told the guy that he HAD to hit the fucking hats or something when the drums dropped out, BECAUSE HE'S THE FUCKING DRUMMER AND IT'S HIS GODDAMN JOB TO KEEP TIME FOR EVERYONE ELSE

 

[colonel kurtz]

On the issue of click:

I've certainly taken some flak over the years for insisting on a click. But, every band that's given me a hard time has always thanked me in the end, saying something like "wow, that made us waaaay tighter."

Generally, I'll make sure the band is well practiced to a click for about a month before tracking begins. I had one group start to bitch & whine, then I hit them with this: "If you can't play to a click, then you can't do it. You guys are trying to make a pro-level record, right? How about some pro-level musicianship out of you then?" That shut 'em up. Argument: over.


Had a phone call from a band that wanted me to mix: I told them I wouldn't even look at their project if it's not to a click. Not worth my time.


Scorpio, in your situation, when you walked in the room, the first thing you should have asked was "where's the click?"
Of course the reply would have been, "We don't have one. We have our 'own way'"
To which your reply should have been, "Sorry guys, but I don't waste my time on lost causes. Call me when you grow up."
And then you should have left... ...even before hearing a single note. That would have got the point across.

it's funny, your post reminds of my recording arts teacher...everyone around campus thought the guy was a totally arrogant, pompous, douche...but to me, he was just 100% professional. if someone played a note or chord out of a key, he had no problem stopping the session and telling them what they should play. if you had a guitar and amp that sounded like shit, he would tell you so, and insistthat you either use what they had on campus, or go find something else. it's amazing how opinions change through the lens of perspective...god knows how much time he wasted with shitty, clueless, musicians in the earlier part of his career. now i understand why he doesn't hesitate to show people the door when they can't cut it.

 

[Notuern]

Speaking of these problems about playing to a click, all of our band members actually never played to a click(Exept me, who practises to clicks at least once a week.).
So to solve problems for future recordings, we are going to get a metronome to our rehearsal, and actually rehearse to a click.
It doesnt seem like many bands are doing this, but I think that you can really benifit from playing your songs in the exact same BPM every time.

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

I went to a friends studio to help out, (for free) and the drummer who they warned me was stubborn and couldn't play to a click track. so there are parts where the guitar was playing alone so i suggested that when those parts are playing that he do it old school and hit the hi hat to keep time, he said no cause he follows the guitar player ( who himself can't play to a click track). so everytime they were to play together they would be off timing of each other.I tried explaining to them that there has to be some sort of timing source when the drums cut out and come back in. but these guys were not trying hearing me. the singer was the only one who understood and was trying so hard to get those guys to understand (poor guy). so it got to the point that the drummer was trying to blame me for why they couldn't keep time by suggesting that record his drums.....then match the click track to his drums afterwards. after four hours on one song keep in my we were just tracking drums and a scratch guitar track. i finally told my friend that I'm sorry i cant help him and that I had to go. so i left. I love recording bands, so this was a first time for me cutting my losses, but if i didn't leave i would have lost all my love for music and recording.

haha I don't have pro tools but I wish I did for instances like that! Drummers these days don't have a clue.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

My old media prof had a favourite saying when griping about sub-standard equipment or attitudes, "That might be fine for your sister's birthday party, but we're trying to work professionally here."


Wise words indeed.

 

[scorpio01169]

haha I don't have pro tools but I wish I did for instances like that! Drummers these days don't have a clue.

that might work if the drummer in question is somewhat keeping time but this was not the case. playing to a click track, to me is what all musicians should know. but then again I took music in school so I had to. but absolute refusal to learn or do something that can make you a better musician is crazy to me. something I forgot to mention in this story..here in San Antonio there is a contest going on for bands to get to open up for Mudvayne and these guys wanted my vote.....well i cant do it, not because of what happened yesterday but i cant vote to put this group on stage before professionals.

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

that might work if the drummer in question is somewhat keeping time but this was not the case. playing to a click track, to me is what all musicians should know. but then again I took music in school so I had to. but absolute refusal to learn or do something that can make you a better musician is crazy to me. something I forgot to mention in this story..here in San Antonio there is a contest going on for bands to get to open up for Mudvayne and these guys wanted my vote.....well i cant do it, not because of what happened yesterday but i cant vote to put this group on stage before professionals.

Yeah true.. for any sort of beat detective thing to work the drums have to at least be close... this is why I just transfer bad drummers to midi and then edit the shit out of the cymbals.

Sure it doesn't do anything for their skill as a drummer but what can I do? They are paying me for a good recording, not for drum lessons.

 

[Zack Uidl]

if people can't play to a click, i don't record them

 

[Notuern]

if people can't play to a click, i don't record them

I usualy write down some "rules" that are going to be followed in my sessions, and if these rules are broken, I can blow off the whole session and still demand pay for an entire days work(Sence thats what you loose at the very least.).

Some of them that I have are basic stuff, like:

No smoking/no liquids anywhere near my gear.
Everyone in the band has to practice to a click atleast a whole week before recording.
Im all knowing, you are not.

Of course, its important not to be a dick and abuse these rules either.

 

[James Murphy]

i have let drummers go from album sessions.... drummers that were band members even, and done it with full authority from the rest of the band and label behind me. and i've done it very recently. i did it "nicely", but i'm still a dick in the eyes of the drummer who's been made redundant. oh well.... shoulda spent more time practicing and less time smoking pot.

$1000 blown in a drum room on an album with an only $15K budget, when you've had 6 weeks to practice to click tracks of every song, tracked with tight, well played scratch guitars = epic fail.

still, i'm the bad guy.

i'm not losing sleep over it.