All that other stuff...

[NAD]

Okay, so obviously if the music isn't good, the CD isn't good. But do other things matter, like artwork, track order, album length, band image, label, fanbase, etc.? Are any of these pertinent to the listening experience, are they just added bonuses, or do they matter at all?

I've always enjoyed a CD with thorough liner notes (like Nile) or incredible artwork (like Tool). Stuff like that definitely adds to the experience, but are not necessary.

However, track order plays a VERY big role for me, particularly the opening and closing tracks. For example, take Alice in Chains - Dirt. Begins with a scream on Them Bones and ends with IF I COULD WOULD YOU? with Would?

Thoughts?

 

[JayKeeley]

Okay, so obviously if the music isn't good, the CD isn't good. But do other things matter, like artwork, track order, album length, band image, label, fanbase, etc.? Are any of these pertinent to the listening experience, are they just added bonuses, or do they matter at all?

Five Stars Awarded!

OK the key thing here is that the music outweighs ALL other attributes. Otherwise, here are my $0.02:

Artwork: A definite bonus when it's cool, and it shows effort when the artwork matches the mood of the music. I like digipaks, I like lyrics in the liner notes, I like the gloss. It can work both ways though because some metal is purposely offensive - I could NEVER own something like A Fate Worse Than Death by THOR'S HAMMER (either edition). I don't want my kid seeing shit like that. But that's just me. I can assume that others would be offended by the Dechristianize front cover by VR, for example.

Track Order: This is very important. Who decides this btw? I don't like albums where all the good songs are bunched up at the beginning or end or middle. Spread it evenly, and choose the first song accordingly!!!! Something MALMSTEEN can never seem to do right. How he thought to put "Making Love" at #1 on Eclipse is beyond me...

Album Length: Nah, doesn't bother me as long as it's all good quality. Reign in Blood being 28 minutes long doesn't bother me in the slightest, for example. And good concept albums typically go the distance.

Band Image: Well, let's face facts, metal cannot be accused of being 'trendy'. However, bullet belts, skin tight jeans, middle-partings, and all the other things that made the Spinal Tap 80's fashion statement so ridiculous can definitely put me off (but never enough to prevent me from buying the CD). I dread to think of what anyone on the outside looking in would think of my CD collection....

Label: Couldn't give a crap, although I personally feel morally torn to buy from a label called "No Colors" or whatever...

Fanbase: Not really important, but I would like to know that I'm not about to walk into a gig filled with neo nazi skinheads, heh....

 

[Ayeka]

I need to do it blow-by-blow as well

Artwork: Helpful, yeah. A cool album cover leaves a lasting impression, and helps to hold in your sweaty palms in dumbstruck awe as you listen to ManOwaR if it's crap you just don't pay attention to it. So I guess art's a safe point. Can't take away from the music, but if done right can add something to remember it by. And, let's face it, when we were kids we were all very impressed by Metal album covers, ne?

Track order: Doesn't seem important to me. It's only after you listen to the music that songs become memorable for their order for whatever reason, but I can't really think of an album that would have suffered if the tracklist got jiggered around before anyone heard it. I mean, with hindsight, Powerslave beginning with Rime Of The Ancient Mariner sounds daft, ne? But then you think, Maiden did this with Sign Of The Cross on The X Factor. We see where it leads?

Length: Long albums only a problem if the material is too plodding and dull with nothing to say. See Opeth.

Imagine: This is gonna contrast quite oddly with what Jay said, but I must admit I am a total sucker for those cliche 80s images. Bullet belts, skin tight jeans, middle-partings a la Iron Maiden/Tygers Of Pang Tang are very sexy but not as sexy as spandex & hair spray of Hair bands. What's left? Those photos from the first three Slayer albums! They're not sexy, but they make the music, to quote Strong Bad, "a whole lot cooler, like robot boots!"

Label: Don't give a shit

Fanbase: Not important with personal exceptions. Sometimes I've thought about Slipknot, who I used to be a really big fan of, and I've thought 'is it likely I'll go back to liking them'? Apart from the main 'no because I'm not interested', the other discouraging factor was imagining legions of 14-year old kids and thinking 'and be part of THAT crowd'? Same with Metallica. I suppose it's a case of helping drive you away from bands you are indifferent to, but that's just me and I can imagine there would be some uber-mature metalheads who would clout me for this (the same who clout you for saying "Death To False Metal!" - what was ever wrong with that anyway?!)

At the end of the day, these are little niceties that add to the pleasure of listening to music. I really do like a nice fat glossy booklet to flick through and accidentally put greasy thumbprints on when I'm on my first listen. I have a copy of Deep Purple's first album that I bought in America where the sleeve is just a slip of paper for the album cover...the music speaks for itself but I like little sparkly lights and zip-a-tone to go with it!

 

[lizard]

I really do like a nice fat glossy booklet to flick through and accidentally put greasy thumbprints on when I'm on my first listen.

aaargh I hate it when that happens, when will I ever learn?:Spin:

artwork: I love a well constructed cd package, with thorough liner notes. and conversely, a shoddy packaging is disappointing. Spinefarm Records (Finland) in particular, has good concepts but then will put like light blue text against a hazy grey background or some shit, really strains the eyes. (apply this also to the "label" section!)

track order: not that big of a thing, but its nice when you can see the artists put some thought into the pacing of an album. for instance, not two ballads in a row, frinstance.

album length: I want decent tunage for my buck, but not if the cd is gonna be full of filler.

band image: haha invites the inevitable manowar comment. like it or not, image does influence what we think oftentimes. for instance, just me, but I think corpse paint is silly.

label: not a huge thing, although some labels you just dislike when you learn they don't properly promote their bands, or provide tour support...

fanbase: you don't want to put on your spandex and then find yourself in the mosh pit with guys who have swastikas tattooed on their neck:Spin:

 

[Ayeka]

fanbase: you don't want to put on your spandex and then find yourself in the mosh pit with guys who have swastikas tattooed on their neck:Spin:

lmmfaao!!!!

 

[NAD]

Length: Long albums only a problem if the material is too plodding and dull with nothing to say. See Opeth.

Ouch!

I guess I'll do my list now.

Artwork: Added bonus, but not necessary. Digipacks rule, creative packaging rules, and Tool has consistently upped the ante with every release. The layered artwork of Lateralus is just incredible!

Track order: Very important, in fact I have several CDs that have bonus tracks tacked onto the end that completely ruin the experience. Hypocrisy's self-titled would be a perfect album were it not for that stupid bonus track at the end. BONUS DISC PLEASE!!!

Album length: Somewhat important, I don't like 70+ minute brutal death albums because I'm pretty exhausted at that point. Artsy records though, go for the length. Filler sucks, but everyone knows that.

Image: I really don't like bands that look too goofy (corpsepaint is goofy), but like artwork, it doesn't detract from the music ever.

Label: Something I pay attention to, but don't form any opinions on the band based on what label they're on. Although I will look at a particular label's roster to find new bands sometimes.

Fanbase: Okay I'm a fan of Marilyn Manson but I would NEVER wear their t-shirts because I wouldn't want to get lumped in as one of THEM. And Lizard's right.

WAKE UP DEAD OWNS!!!

 

[Demonspell]

Artwork: I think this can be an important part of the overall presentation of an album, and I always appreciate a professionally designed booklet and imagery that complements the music.
Track order: I find this important because it plays a huge role in determining the pace and mood of an album
Album length: Albums under 45 minutes are usually a pet peeve of mine, they give me the impression that the artist is not overly concerned with value. Of course, there are exceptions.
Band image: Unless the image revolves around political views I find offensive (especially racism) or is hopelessly cheesy or otherwise embarrassing, I could care less.
Label: A label's track record and reputation can influence me to check out newly signed artists, but otherwise it's not a factor.
Fanbase: No concern, although genre stereotypes do piss me off.

 

[JayKeeley]

Do you guys think 'fanbase' and 'band image' can sometimes be tied together? Obviously, a Power Metal band will attract a different kind of crowd to a Black Metal band.


Sometimes it doesn't always work in the favor of the band - take Amon Amarth. They seem to attract the racist fanbase sector to which they object (albeit not very loudly), but still....it doesn't do them any favors.

I guess you can't always pick your fans.

 

[Ayeka]

Do you guys think 'fanbase' and 'band image' can sometimes be tied together? Obviously, a Power Metal band will attract a different kind of crowd to a Black Metal band.

Sounds like 'fanbase' and 'stereotype', as in a band with a certain image will attract a certain breed of fan? With regards to stereotypes, I think this could be true on a superficial level but on closer examination all sorts of oddities pop up. For example, I am not your stereotypical Burzum fan

Is that fair or did I miss your point?

Sometimes it doesn't always work in the favor of the band - take Amon Amarth. They seem to attract the racist fanbase sector to which they object (albeit not very loudly), but still....it doesn't do them any favors.

Are these the guys who were accused of racism after usinhg pageantry of Flanders as artwork for one of their albums? I think I remember them talking about this in an olde interview...

 

[JayKeeley]

Sounds like 'fanbase' and 'stereotype', as in a band with a certain image will attract a certain breed of fan? With regards to stereotypes, I think this could be true on a superficial level but on closer examination all sorts of oddities pop up. For example, I am not your stereotypical Burzum fan

Is that fair or did I miss your point?

That's fair - you articulate gooder than me.

Are these the guys who were accused of racism after usinhg pageantry of Flanders as artwork for one of their albums? I think I remember them talking about this in an olde interview...

All their artwork looks like Manowar - big musclebound Viking blokes with hammers and wotnot. There's really no underlying theme to it since it's so blatant.

And they're excellent by the way. They're one of those bands where you can comfortably start at the beginning and make your way through the catalog. I actually think their first album (Sorrow...) is their best.

 

[Ayeka]

I've just remembered that it was Ancient Rites who used the pegeantry - at least I'm fairly certain it was! Heh, I'll check 'em both out someday

 

[NAD]

I've always found it funny that Slayer attracted skinheads, considering that Tom Araya is from Beliz (Belizian?) and Dave Lombardo is Cuban.

 

[JayKeeley]

I've always found it funny that Slayer attracted skinheads, considering that Tom Araya is from Beliz (Belizian?) and Dave Lombardo is Cuban.

Yeah, but it might be the same as with Motorhead and all the fans wearing bomber jackets and the iron cross symbols. I know a Slayer fan who wears an Iron Cross earing....I guess it could be offensive to some people, and he recognizes that. He is the furthest thing from being anti-semitic.

I think nazi skinheads draw the line at Jews and Blacks for the most part. If you're hispanic, you might be 'forgiven', but you're still a mutt to a certain degree.

None of it makes sense - the Nazi theory of white supremacy was personified in blonde hair, blue eyes blah blah, and yet they allied with the Japanese and Italians to rule the world. Just look at ol' Adolf, heh.

Hatred without intelligence is just SO dumb, it's laughable. Hate for a reason, and be willing to back it up with some decent level of thought, and I might listen to what you have to say.

And I want ample proof that human life didn't start in Africa too.

 

[NAD]

Does that mean Adam and Eve were black?

 

[JayKeeley]

Does that mean Adam and Eve were black?

No, but God is.

 

[Ayeka]

I've always found it funny that Slayer attracted skinheads, considering that Tom Araya is from Beliz (Belizian?) and Dave Lombardo is Cuban.

Tom Araya is Chilean, I'm pretty sure

None of it makes sense - the Nazi theory of white supremacy was personified in blonde hair, blue eyes blah blah, and yet they allied with the Japanese and Italians to rule the world. Just look at ol' Adolf, heh.

The ends justify the means -_-

 

[NAD]

Tom Araya is Chilean, I'm pretty sure

I know a guy who said "YOU LIKE FUCKIN' SLAYER MAN!?? TOM ARAYA?!?! HE'S FROM BELIZ LIKE ME!!!" Imagine that in a thick, drunken, South American accent. You're right though, just found a website to confirm it, thanks.

Well I know that Jesus is black, I thought God was Alanis Morissette? God damn I love that movie.

 

[NAD]

Whoah just found out Jeff Hanneman lives in Riverside, I should go pay him a visit!

 

[lizard]

I think the evidence is pretty much indisputable that humans as we know them originated in Africa.

many white supremists will not stop at race. they don't tend to like catholics either.

 

[haddsie]

I think the evidence is pretty much indisputable that humans as we know them originated in Africa.

Then again, people dispute evolution, the Holocaust, man landing on the Moon.