Another one from the Untruth EP (Produced, Engineered & Mixed)

[Ermz]

Hey guys,

I've posted almost all the songs from this CD at one point or another, so I figure I might as well finish it off and put up the last.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285689/Forum/Untruth - In Absence of Beacons.mp3

It was done around mid last year, included some of Guitarhack's last reamps before he sold off his gear, and mastering by Plec at Panic Room Mastering. I engineered, co-produced and mixed the entire thing.

The band are here: http://www.myspace.com/untruth1

At present they are looking for two guitarists to continue on with the band, so if you're interested in the material, maybe hit them up.

 

[wibi08]

I like how vocal owns the song

could you please share your recipe on vocal? and bass if you don't mind

Thank you Ermin!

 

[Melb_shredder]

Ermin! You know what! Now that you posted the last song its over! The untruth mix needs to be laid to rest and you have you destroy it with one of your new ones haha

 

[Ermz]

Haha, perhaps. But none of the newer ones I've supervised the tracking on are written in this sort of way, so it's unlikely that the depth or punch of this one will be challenged for a while. Though I'll try push the new ones in different ways, since there's a lot more outboard going on here now.

@wibi: The only 'recipe' was to get a good vocalist and stick a great chain of gear in front of him. U87 > Distressor > Digi 192. With bass the 'recipe' was to get a bassist that slammed the crap out of the strings, and track him into a good chain (Millennia Origin > RME Multiface). Everything from then on, within the mix, became pretty self-explanatory.

 

[SkyMan666]

Awsome Ermz. I really like the mix. For me everything fits perfectly... Keep it comin'

 

[fitzrangerhoodngarb]

Interesting you mention punch cause I don't hear any on this. It sounds flat as a pancake. And distorted as fuck (ok, that's probably the mp3 factor - at least I hope so).

I don't get any sense of power from the bottom end a lot of the time. To me it's shaped the wrong way around - I'd have gone inverted on the kick/bass lo freq relationship, but that's me (and maybe not the style). The denser moments lack weight even with the (seemingly artificial) lo freq extension of the bass.

I also hear a wonky phase relationship with the snare in the middle bit where it sounds flappy. It does sound real(er) there at least and not plasticy like the rest .

Do I sound like a complete bitch yet? Haha, I don't mean to be, clearly you know what you're doing in this style. I have no understanding of the modern metal aesthetic so grain of salt and all that. But I enjoy trying to increase my understanding of things I know nothing about (that's why I'm here). Just critiquing on an uninformed gut level.

Vocals are cool.

 

[Dalinkwent48@aim.com]

Ive loved every mix youve put up from these guys, you did an incredible job on this shit dude.


-Mike

 

[Joematthews]

I'm sorry, but saying someones mix is all wrong and then saying you know nothing about modern metal production is more than a little daft. Besides, I totally disagree.

 

[Melb_shredder]

Interesting you mention punch cause I don't hear any on this. It sounds flat as a pancake. And distorted as fuck (ok, that's probably the mp3 factor - at least I hope so).

I don't get any sense of power from the bottom end a lot of the time. To me it's shaped the wrong way around - I'd have gone inverted on the kick/bass lo freq relationship, but that's me (and maybe not the style). The denser moments lack weight even with the (seemingly artificial) lo freq extension of the bass.

I also hear a wonky phase relationship with the snare in the middle bit where it sounds flappy. It does sound real(er) there at least and not plasticy like the rest .

Do I sound like a complete bitch yet? Haha, I don't mean to be, clearly you know what you're doing in this style. I have no understanding of the modern metal aesthetic so grain of salt and all that. But I enjoy trying to increase my understanding of things I know nothing about (that's why I'm here). Just critiquing on an uninformed gut level.

Vocals are cool.

This is not meant to be offensive at all dude, but yeah, I definitely understand that you don't know much about metal production from your post. But hey! That's what the forum is here for. Getting the perfect relationship between kick and bass in modern metal is a task and a world of its own. So swap the lo end relationship in this particular instance would lead to some nasty build up on fast double kick parts. Ermin has done a stellar job with this EP and the bass is honestly probably one of my favourite sounds/ mixes pulled so far, in general. It's not heavy and slow radio rock/ or a good example, AIC newest album.

You can't pull that shit here unfortunately. This is a fantastic example though, of when you take advantage of full range speakers and monitoring instead of lumping everything into a confined space for listening on crappy systems.

What did you listen to the mix on? Because when you hear this on a full range system, bring a bag in case you poo your pants a little

 

[fitzrangerhoodngarb]

I'm sorry, but saying someones mix is all wrong and then saying you know nothing about modern metal production is more than a little daft. Besides, I totally disagree.

Hi Joematthews, I disagree.

Quite often naive, uninformed and stylistically challenged listeners can bring great insight into one's work. Sometimes it can bring nothing.

Accepting criticism is also a part of the gig, be it from the band, the fans, the manager, the A&R guy, the label, the press, your girlfriend, anonomous internet guy or your peers. Oftentimes even uninformed unfounded criticism can be more useful in challenging the psychological aspects of the job than having smoke blown up your arse unnecessarily.

 

[fitzrangerhoodngarb]

This is not meant to be offensive at all dude, but yeah, I definitely understand that you don't know much about metal production from your post. But hey! That's what the forum is here for. Getting the perfect relationship between kick and bass in modern metal is a task and a world of its own. So swap the lo end relationship in this particular instance would lead to some nasty build up on fast double kick parts. Ermin has done a stellar job with this EP and the bass is honestly probably one of my favourite sounds/ mixes pulled so far, in general. It's not heavy and slow radio rock/ or a good example, AIC newest album.

You can't pull that shit here unfortunately. This is a fantastic example though, of when you take advantage of full range speakers and monitoring instead of lumping everything into a confined space for listening on crappy systems.

What did you listen to the mix on? Because when you hear this on a full range system, bring a bag in case you poo your pants a little

Hi mate, always happy to accept criticism of my criticism. The points you made about the kick and bass relationship noted.

I listened on a pretty serious system incidently. Not mine in this instance. Duntech Sovereigns, Velodyne subs, Lavry Gold DA, purpose built listening room yada yada yada. That doesn't validate my opinion any more or less but I was hearing it all and commenting on what I heard.

 

[Shawnn]

Amazing dude, I don't know how you manage to get such an mindblowingly-awesome bass tone. The mix is flawless, and it fits the genre perfectly. :O

By the way, I remember back in August 2009, you posted the mix to "The Possessing" on here. I downloaded it on my phone at the time before going on vacation, but a few days later, my phone bricked, losing everything I had on it, including the song. So when I got back from vacation, I tried to download it again by going back to the thread, but all the links you had of the updated versions of the mix were 404'd. I've been dying to listen to the song again over the past year, and the Myspace quality versions don't sound as eargasmic as the ones you posted. If it doesn't bother you, would it be alright for you to repost "The Possessing" again please?

 

[Ermz]

Haha! Fitz' impression actually reminds me of what happened when I put a track up on Gearslutz once. I always forget that there is a wider world of music listeners out there, away from our insular little metal home. This is usually the sort of perspective many have regarding metal production. There's not much really that can be said, it's always humbling to hear these things.

@Shawnn: Sorry I don't quite feel right putting more of the EP up at once. If you want a copy of all the songs mate, feel free to order the CD from the Untruth guys. They are friendly, and will do good deals, as Gareth will tell you

Cheers to the guys that liked it, and even those that didn't!

 

[Melb_shredder]

Hi mate, always happy to accept criticism of my criticism. The points you made about the kick and bass relationship noted.

I listened on a pretty serious system incidently. Not mine in this instance. Duntech Sovereigns, Velodyne subs, Lavry Gold DA, purpose built listening room yada yada yada. That doesn't validate my opinion any more or less but I was hearing it all and commenting on what I heard.

In that case dude, fair enough. You came to your conclusion from what you know and assume. And like I said, it's cool. It just may be that your usual techniques, expectations etc aren't factored into this style of production simply because the results are radically different and create a less than desired mix.

Check out:
In Flames - Clayman
In Flames - Come Clarity
Soilwork - Stabbing the drama

Those are some great production that take full control of the low end. I feel clayman will appeal to you more. But have a good listen. They will definitely help you grasp the ways to lock the low end in well on metal production.

*Clayman may be a little bass heavy in fact, but most of the songs are mid tempo so it works.

 

[AntonioPetrole]

I love this EP, they sent it to me, i was the first person in the states to get a copy (YAY!). I love these dudes and the production is amazing also. Great job ermz! BTW this is my favorite song by them, that build up is soo intense 3/4 the way through

 

[fitzrangerhoodngarb]

Haha! Fitz' impression actually reminds me of what happened when I put a track up on Gearslutz once. I always forget that there is a wider world of music listeners out there, away from our insular little metal home. This is usually the sort of perspective many have regarding metal production. There's not much really that can be said, it's always humbling to hear these things.
Cheers to the guys that liked it, and even those that didn't!

Just to clarify a couple of things....I commented on the mix because it was posted in this sub-forum. I figured that's the point of this place, to pull out the microscope. So I did. No biggie.

FWIW my perspective is shaped by being a teenager in the late 80's and growing up on classic grind - all the usual suspects - Napalm, E.N.T., Carcass, Terrorizer et al. Obviously a world away from todays production. Rather than take the classic kneejerk generational conflict approach (You young cunts don't know metal... Back in my day etc...) I'm more interested in trying to understand modern metal production and, in particular, why seemingly way lower-fi production feels way more powerful and darker to me than all the slick, perfect, sample replaced shit around today. That wasn't my motivation for commenting here, but it is a partial included in my perspective.

@Melb_shredder: Cheers bloke, I'll check out that stuff. I'm vaguely familiar with that Swedish (?) stuff...Time for a revisit.

 

[Ermz]

Yeah that's absolutely fine. You're more than welcome to comment, it's why it's posted here after all. I just have nothing to really say on the matter. If it's modern metal production in general that you don't gel with, I'm not really sure I can say anything illuminating. I simply mix the way I think the material will work the best. It appears to be generally well received by those who have heard it, so I imagine it's along the right tracks for today's market.

I'm sure there are still plenty of bands staying true to the production sounds of the late 80s, early 90s... somewhere.

 

[brianhood]

Cool mix dude. One of the most solid i've heard from you so far(i know it's old, but i haven't heard that many of your mixes so far).

I really dig the guitar tone. What was the chain if you dont mind me asking.

 

[Ermz]

Guitar chain would be pretty familiar to you. Maxon OD-820 > Peavey 6505 > Mesa Oversize > SM57. Very cookie cutter, nothing particularly out of the ordinary.

The leads were done with a 6505 right into Ryan's Pres 8 impulse.

Thanks for listening. It's still one of my best mixes, largely due to the fact that I was involved in the entire recording procedure. Don't get that luxury all too often down here sadly. When you do it's commonly 80s thrash knock-off material, so there's no opportunity to make it sound large by virtue of how its written.

I wanted to get more involved in the whole metalcore thing, but this was basically the last record of its kind that I did.

 

[Mago]

Just to clarify a couple of things....I commented on the mix because it was posted in this sub-forum. I figured that's the point of this place, to pull out the microscope. So I did. No biggie.

FWIW my perspective is shaped by being a teenager in the late 80's and growing up on classic grind - all the usual suspects - Napalm, E.N.T., Carcass, Terrorizer et al. Obviously a world away from todays production. Rather than take the classic kneejerk generational conflict approach (You young cunts don't know metal... Back in my day etc...) I'm more interested in trying to understand modern metal production and, in particular, why seemingly way lower-fi production feels way more powerful and darker to me than all the slick, perfect, sample replaced shit around today. That wasn't my motivation for commenting here, but it is a partial included in my perspective.

I think it's cool that you're checking out was is going on production wise "these days"

A father of one of my friends once told me, that one of the mixes I did sounded good for him, but the waveform didnt look good to him because it was just one big "sausage"
we than had a talk about loudness haha

@ Ermz:
So some of the Untruth guys split or something? A pitty, I hoped that there would be coming an LP produced by you at some time :/

edit:

I wanted to get more involved in the whole metalcore thing, but this was basically the last record of its kind that I did.

Too boring?