Awesome political quote (even safe for Dark One)

[General Zod]

The people who wrote this Constitution lived in a world more dangerous than ours. They were surrounded by territory controlled by hostile powers, on the edge of a vast wilderness. Yet they understood that even in perilous times, the strength of self-government was public debate and public consensus. They knew too that men are fallible, themselves included, and prone to abuse great office. They left us safeguards against men whose appetites for power might exceed their moral wisdom.

To forget this, to ignore the safeguards, to put aside our basic values out of fear, to imitate the foe in order to defeat him, is to shred the distinction that makes us different. For, in the end, not only our values but our methods separate us from the enemies of freedom. The decisions we make are inherent in the methods that produce them. An open society cannot survive a secret government. Constitutional democracy is no romantic notion. It's our defense against ourselves, the one foe who might defeat us.

- Bill Moyers (commenting on Iran-Contra)

 

[lurch70]

awesome quote ... a very idealistic one though.

lets face it, the problems we face in the world today on a global scale are the same problems the world has faced since the begining of man ... fighting for religion, territory, etc.

powerful people by their very nature always want "more", different and changes. and they always believe that their way is "the" way ... and they will try their mightiest to instill it in another.

the other type, like the ones mentioned in your qoute ... usually end up being assasinated.

 

[Erik]

politics are awful

 

[Reign in Acai]

politics are awful

This is honestly the best damn quote in this thread hands down. Even though I do like the one you posted Greg. When it all comes down to it, there are so many more important things a man can focus on that are within his control.

 

[General Zod]

This is honestly the best damn quote in this thread hands down.

Erik is just jealous because he's not American.

Zod

 

[Reign in Acai]

Greg, Moonsorrow is playing in Toronto several days before Heathen. Take a week off of work and party like it's 1999!!!

 

[General Zod]

Greg, Moonsorrow is playing in Toronto several days before Heathen. Take a week off of work and party like it's 1999!!!

Between Heathen Crusade, Wacken and ProgPower, next year's vacation days are already spoken for.

Zod

 

[Reign in Acai]

Which month is Wacken mate?!?! Progpower isn't a fest that motivates me to cross the country. They just started a spin off this year known as ProgPower West which weilded a mighty mighty lineup in its own right. Unfortunately, I missed it.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

good quote zod...

Constitutional democracy is no romantic notion. It's our defense against ourselves, the one foe who might defeat us.

unfortunately society has reached a point where the "foe", as it were, is no longer a person but an entity with the rights of an individual but none of the responsibilities. while our constitution may theoretically have checks to prevent, say, an end to free elections or a declaration of emergency powers (cough fucking cough), pro-business interpretations have entitled corporate entities to fewer legal restrictions than the individuals who compose them. this is a significant reversal from the era when the constitution was originally written, and it's outrageously damaging to democracy.

"Slavery is the legal fiction that a person is property. Corporate Personhood is the legal fiction that property is a person."
-- Jan Edwards and Molly Morgan, Women's International League for Peace and Freedom (WILPF)

"The continued existence of a government would be of no great value, if by implications and presumptions, it was disarmed of the powers necessary to accomplish the ends of its creation; and the functions it was designed to perform, transferred to the hands of privileged corporations."
--Chief Justice Roger Taney, 1837


@ jefferson davis sig

 

[Reign in Acai]

^ This post is 100% approved.

 

[General Zod]

unfortunately society has reached a point where the "foe", as it were, is no longer a person but an entity with the rights of an individual but none of the responsibilities. while our constitution may theoretically have checks to prevent, say, an end to free elections or a declaration of emergency powers (cough fucking cough), pro-business interpretations have entitled corporate entities to fewer legal restrictions than the individuals who compose them. this is a significant reversal from the era when the constitution was originally written, and it's outrageously damaging to democracy.

Well said.

Zod

 

[General Zod]

Which month is Wacken mate?!?!

First week in August.

Zod

 

[Reign in Acai]

First week in August.

Zod

Hmmm I may very well attend as well. Let's hope for a grandiose lineup.

 

[Dark One]

LOL @ the thread title.

Anyway, good words, which I would generally agree with if I didn't already know the broken record underlying implications contained within.

Let me ask you a general question Greg: If things are so terrible and you care about it so very much (as you appear to) - have you considered taking constructive action other than continued bashings among a small group of people that (for the most part) already agree with everything you say? Seriously, why not write Op Ed pages for your local paper, get involved with local politics, take part in or organize protests, etc.?

Regardless of my beliefs (and I am passionate about them), what is important to me in my own life comes first and foremost. I can still choose what music to listen to, what friends to hang out with, what girls to go after, what porn to watch, what movies and shows to watch, what food to eat, where to live, where to vacation. If I'm not going to get involved in politics at any level other than continued discussion among friends and constituents, I'm going to take the high road and focus on what things we DO have in common in order to be happy, because those things we have in common indeed are more important to me. I'm not going to dislike you simply because of what you believe about our gov't, I'm going to like you because we have so much in common that it makes my own personal world a little bit better every time we get a chance to hang out. Now that may be a selfish point of view, but it's reality.

 

[Erik]

Regardless of my beliefs (and I am passionate about them), what is important to me in my own life comes first and foremost. I can still choose what music to listen to, what friends to hang out with, what girls to go after, what porn to watch, what movies and shows to watch, what food to eat, where to live, where to vacation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

 

[Dark One]

Like I said, it can certainly be seen as a selfish point of view, but reality as well.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

LOL @ the thread title.

Anyway, good words, which I would generally agree with if I didn't already know the broken record underlying implications contained within.

Let me ask you a general question Greg: If things are so terrible and you care about it so very much (as you appear to) - have you considered taking constructive action other than continued bashings among a small group of people that (for the most part) already agree with everything you say? Seriously, why not write Op Ed pages for your local paper, get involved with local politics, take part in or organize protests, etc.?

Regardless of my beliefs (and I am passionate about them), what is important to me in my own life comes first and foremost. I can still choose what music to listen to, what friends to hang out with, what girls to go after, what porn to watch, what movies and shows to watch, what food to eat, where to live, where to vacation. If I'm not going to get involved in politics at any level other than continued discussion among friends and constituents, I'm going to take the high road and focus on what things we DO have in common in order to be happy, because those things we have in common indeed are more important to me. I'm not going to dislike you simply because of what you believe about our gov't, I'm going to like you because we have so much in common that it makes my own personal world a little bit better every time we get a chance to hang out. Now that may be a selfish point of view, but it's reality.

that's a nice sentiment and i appreciate the spirit of cordiality, but i think you're taking zod's (/mine/whoever else's) remarks too personally...they're not intented as an attack on conservative members of this forum specifically. talking about politics is talking about the way you think it should be, the system that you think will provide the greatest benefit. if all anyone ever talked about was how much we all have in common, that wouldn't do much for critical thinking.

 

[Erik]

Like I said, it can certainly be seen as a selfish point of view, but reality as well.

you enjoy the perceived "freedoms" that you have been given by your government and see them as enabling you to do the most important things in your life, but simultaneously you do not see that your government is gradually eroding all your personal rights until you just don't have them anymore and it's already too late to complain or do anything about it? that's pretty ignorant, in the real (not as popularly americanized) sense of the word

i will assume that you agree with the fundamental values that the USA claims to be built upon yet you just don't care when the government works directly against them because you yourself are still fine -- well you might be able to "choose your music" and have other "freedoms" today but in some way or another, one day they WILL come for you

then again i see it as inevitable so don't think i'm encouraging you to take action or anything, you're fucking doomed no matter what you do so just sit back and enjoy the destruction of your country and pray that you will have died of natural causes before they throw you in a death camp

 

[Dark One]

they're not intented as an attack on conservative members of this forum specifically.

Oh, I wasn't taking it personally at all - I just know the quote referencing a wholly separate incident was meant to provoke thought about the current administration.

talking about politics is talking about the way you think it should be, the system that you think will provide the greatest benefit.

No arguments there, I'll talk politics with anyone every now and then if they want to (with an open mind as well).

if all anyone ever talked about was how much we all have in common, that wouldn't do much for critical thinking.

Ah, and herein lies a bit of a misunderstanding. I'm all for free and critical thinking. I don't mean living in a book burning, "let us worry about how the gov't" is run society by any means. If that was the type of society we lived in, I'd be talking politics on message boards, newspapers, local media and anyone else who would hear me. I basically meant when it gets to the point where your passion for your beliefs are consuming you to the point where it looks like you want to do something about it, then do something about it. Otherwise, life is too short not to try and make your own world as nice a place as it can be.

That said, if continuing to express your frustration to others that mostly share your sentiments makes your personal world better, than so be it and more power to you.

 

[Dark One]

you enjoy the perceived "freedoms" that you have been given by your government and see them as enabling you to do the most important things in your life, but simultaneously you do not see that your government is gradually eroding all your personal rights until you just don't have them anymore and it's already too late to complain or do anything about it? that's pretty ignorant, in the real (not as popularly americanized) sense of the word....

Believe what you want Erik. Seriously.