Baritone vs. 7 String: My next irresponsible purchase

[A Gruesome Discovery]

I've been searching this forum and other, less awesome forums for recommendations on seven strings and/or baritones, and the few cases where baritones are mentioned seem to indicate some sort of stigma about them. I figured this was due to the extended scale and the possible unweildiness of such a big-ass neck, and the general consensus seems to be that a 7-er is the way to go. However, I see that a lot of the seven stringed pieces I've been looking at are also of the 26.5" persuasion. Is there some other aspect of baritone pieces that I'm overlooking that would account for the perceived negative attitude for them?
I'm pretty much down to either a Schecter 007 Blackjack or the C1-EX Baritone Blackjack, but I'm really leaning towards the EX because a shop near me has one that they outfitted with a set of 85/81 for only a few bucks more than the regular EX's (which normally come stocked with Duncans). Or should I just buy a nice regular scale guitar and slap some heavy-gauge strings on them? If anyone can talk me out of it, speak now!

 

[JeffTD]

They're two different beasts. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

Baritones are good for tuning down and keeping a nice tight feel, but I personally would rather just tune a standard scale down.

A 7 string needs that longer scale, IMO, to make the low B respond nice and tightly. You also get that high E, which, for metal, is a must, IMO. A 7 also opens up a whole new world of chording positions and structures.

 

[Ermz]

I've got a Schecter C-7 Hellraiser on order, so you know my prefference. I think the versatility a 7-string gives you just wins out. If you're a strictly rhythmic player then I suppose it's a bit superfluous, but otherwise, 7-string is the shiz.

 

[Kazrog]

I agree with Moonlapse. 7 strings are where it's at.

I love my 6 strings, but I primarily use them for drop-tunings.

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

Yeah. 7 strings are awesome. I use them almost exlusively for my own music. The range is just awesome.

 

[sah5150]

I've got a Schecter C-7 Hellraiser on order, so you know my prefference. I think the versatility a 7-string gives you just wins out. If you're a strictly rhythmic player then I suppose it's a bit superfluous, but otherwise, 7-string is the shiz.

I just ordered one of these as well. Should be here in SoCal on Monday. Unfortunately, I will be in Europe for a week...

Steve

 

[Benny H]

Baritone 7 for me... I got a Schecter Damien not long ago.

The 26.5” neck is great, especially coming from my old 7, which is only 24.75". (Epiphone)

 

[DNW]

I have three 7-string guitars: RG2127X, UV777, and RG7620 (yep, all Ibanez). All of them are std. scale guitars, and I have no problems getting a nice tight low B, provided I use a string of decent thickness. I've tried from (I think it was a) 54, up to a 60, and the 60 feels about right to me (with a set of 10s for the other 6 strings). I also have a few 65s around (actually bass strings), but I haven't felt the need to try one out yet.

 

[Matt Crooks]

I had a baritone and still have several 7 strings. The baritone didn't sound like a guitar to me. Just how a bass guitar playing the same note doesn't sound like a regular guitar, the baritone didn't sound like a guitar to me. The extend scale gives it a much tighter string tension which (to my ears) gives it a piano-esqe quality.

I found that it could be useful as an effect, or to fill out parts, but it wasn't useable as a replacement for a 7 stirng, or 6 string tuned to B.

 

[JeffTD]

Just to retouch on this, I've had my C-7 Hellraiser for about a month and a half now and am loving the shit out of it.

Put it this way; I sold an RR-1 for it, so you'll be happy with either blackjack!

 

[Ermz]

The popularity of Schecter is definitely rising. I've spoken to a few people in recent times who seem to have been swayed by what people have said about them and put in orders for Blackjacks and Hellraisers.

I think for the money, considering the hardware you get, you just can't beat them. Simply put, they're a complete steal.. and damn if those EMG 707s can get some nice clean electric sounds to boot.

To get the same hardware on a Jackson (which was my previous axe of choice) you pay absurd amounts more!

 

[kaomao]

Just to retouch on this, I've had my C-7 Hellraiser for about a month and a half now and am loving the shit out of it.

Put it this way; I sold an RR-1 for it, so you'll be happy with either blackjack!

You're crazy ?!?!?! selling a RR1 for a schecter?
I mean I know that schecter's are fine, but I think the quality of jackson is super, jackson's are incredible pieces of art.
I got an american RR1 and that is the GUITAR
Maurizio

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

Thanks, everyone! It sounds like a 7 would be the way to go, but this comment especially intrigued me:

It seems extended scales aren't your thing, but most of the Schecter 7 strings also have an extended scale, and people seem to be praising them highly here... Seeing as how both the Hellraiser C7 and the C1-EX are of the same 26.5" scale, surely there wouldn't be a difference in playability? Am I missing some other property inherent with Baritones that an equally-scaled 7 string wouldn't have?
I'm still sort of- but not as much as before I asked- leaning towards the baritone because of budget; since I do vocals and rhythm and leave the solos for the other guy, the E string isn't wholly necessary. The fact that I can get the C1EX with EMGs for about the same price as the C7 with passive Duncs is the root of my indecisiveness; but, if there's some other wacky aspect inherent with baritones that would still make an equally-scaled 7 string superior, I'd like to know about it...
Thanks again, folks

If you're doing rhythm and not soloing I actually think the baritone would be a good idea. You might be able to avoid some of the weird tension problems you get with a seven string and it will be easier to play right off. Also, I understand all too well your money issue.

 

[JeffTD]

You're crazy ?!?!?! selling a RR1 for a schecter?
I mean I know that schecter's are fine, but I think the quality of jackson is super, jackson's are incredible pieces of art.
I got an american RR1 and that is the GUITAR
Maurizio

Haha yeah, the thing was great... played, looked, felt great. It just sounded like shit. There's not enough body wood near the bridge and the Floyd sucked out some balls. It was more of a cutting tone than a crushing tone, and I need a crushing tone.

 

[Nitronium Blood]

Would just like to ask those that play 7 Stringers:

Do you use the extra string for 'shred' or 'low end chug'?

Or both?

 

[EtherForBreakfast]

nitro.. member since december 2001.... and you ask that type of question... i'm at a loss for words.

 

[Nitronium Blood]

I just never owned one. I don't shred and I tune to standard.

I really don't know why people apart from 'people who like Korn' like the 7th string.

The only talented artists that I have heard using more than 6 strings are John Petrucci (on Awake) and Meshuggah. They use it for that 'extra heaviness' factor.

But how about shredders for the sake of scale shredding? (Yes yes I know John is a shredder, but from what I gather the 7th extra was just 'for the heaviness' as I mentioned)

Also, you will have to just forgive me for my questions eventually.

Also I was reading Moonlapse's reply here but he used the word 'superfluous', and my brain shut off because I don't know what that means, and I'm too lazy to look it up.

 

[Benny H]

There is no extra heavyness factor at all, as you could tune any 6 string to the same low note. But that 6 string would lose 12 higher notes.

The 7th string is really the high e.

The "extra" is the ability to tune that low, but still have the full compliment of high notes.

BTW, Marten from Meshuggah could do most(not all) of his parts on a 6 string baritone(including their 8 string material.. that's why it would be baritone). Fredrik improvises solos.. so of course he wants as bigger playing field as possible.

Which ever way you look at it, it's about range.

 

[Ermz]

I was reffering to the high E string being 'superfluous' on a 7-string, if you're a rhythm player. It means needless.

The lower B-string that a 7-string guitar gives you serves the same purpose that a guitar tuned down to B would... If you want to play brutal death metal, you can do it. If straight after the brutal death metal you want to play Opeth, you can do that too.. on the same guitar, without having to mess with any tuning. It's about versatility. I doubt I'd use the 7th string much for shred, since I hardly even use the E string for soloing. It's there for rhythm playing... if you want to go lower, you can.

 

[jamesboyd]

you'll love the hellraiser moonlapse, I've recently got the hellraiser c-7 hellraiser and it's amazing value for money. And yeah 707's can get some great cleans imo.

Nitronium- the same can be said for a lot of metal if you want to be really cynical (i.e even 6 string players really always use th entire range of the instrument etc). Nevermore, meshuggah, petrucci, vai, macalpine, all make great use of the 7string and there are a lot more.