Bass & Kick

[Matt Smith]

Hey Andy/James/whoever...
Do you guys ever filter off any low (sub) frequencies in the bass or kick? Andy, I remember you said you've found bass tends to have an anchor around 160 or so. I'm guessing the kick would usually be somewhere from 60-80. Obviously the bass needs to have some sub content, but do you roll anything off to keep stuff from getting too overwhelming/annoying? Of course it mostly depends on what kind of tone was recorded, but I just mean in general, most of the time, with a pretty good and normal bass tone.
Also, how do you normally handle the 200-1000 area of the bass? Do you usually find that compressing the low mids of the guitars cleans things up enough in the lower mid range, or do you usually pull some stuff out of the bass as well? Of course the bass will have to have something in the 800-2kish ballpark to really be heard, but I'm talking about below that and above the sub frequencies.

We're starting recording this week and have to have a song done quickly for a compilation, so I want to make sure I've got the low end super tight, punchy and ballsy.

Thanks!!

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

I was always told; "Listen for "rumble," then get rid of it."

 

[evildonkeymaster]

Generally I mix kick and bass with no low end roll off and then during mastering put a low shelf or high pass at about 30 Hz (depnds on how much sub freqs there are and how "loud"). This still gives the mix some sub between 20 and 30 but nothing that will eat your master volume or blow up a car's sub woofer. If you roll off too much during mix down your master might sound perfect on desktop computer speakers or a boom box but sound flat and thing in a Hi-Fi system or a car with a sub woofer.

For me the trick to a good metal kick starts with a good drummer. good kick drum and a good mic/ mic placement (this will vary from drum to drum). Then I usually have only about three to four points of EQ I mess with.

1) A pretty big cut to kill the "boxy" part of the sound. This is usually a -10 to -14db cut some where between 250 and 400 at like 4.5 to 6.8 q (depends on kick). I just drop the band and sweep it back and forth between 250 and 400 until it sounds like a kick drum not boxy but boomy and punchy. Some people like the cut at like 150 -200 this results in a thuddy and less boomy kick, think about the first 2 Lamb of God albums.

2) A pretty big boost to bring out the "air" of the kick. This is a high shelf at about 7000 6 - 10 db boost of gain. Now if you did not mic the kick right or you have a lot of bleed from other parts of the kit this will not work. You would end up getting a lot of snare and cymbals if that was the case. This only works with a well isolated kick sound. Lot's of factors play into that like the mic (i.e. a Beta 52 or EV868 will pick up less bleed than say a RE220 or MD421).

3) A focused boost to pull out that metal "click" we all love. THis can very between kick drum, beater head, player's style and the tone you want. It needs to be a pretty tight q like 6-9 and the boost has to come up over the high shelf so it is usually like 6-12db. The freq ranges from 3000 and up. I usually get a deeper click on some kicks at 3500 a lot of drummers like this because it add's definition with out sounding like a standard high 'click". I also have used the 6800-7500 area a lot for that traditional pantera click.

4) If needed (I only do this like 50% of the time) I boost for punch. This is geenerally 40 to 85, tight q of like 6-9 slight boost of like 2-4db. THe reason I use this only half of the time is that cut in step one above gives the kick a percived 10 some odd DBs of boost in the low end (becuase the cut in step one is so serious).

For bass... well i got to go to work so mabey later today I will post. I hope this helps, it is just my opinion and in no way the only approach possible for a metal kick. I would be very curious to hear Andy;s take on these two instruments.
Later

 

[Matt Smith]

Cool, thanks for the info. I don't usually make boosts/cuts that drastically on kick, but then again I'm not using that thin of a Q either. Another thing to experiment with, I guess.

 

[Ermz]

I'm not sure how much help this will be, but an analysis I came up with after having ripped the Pantera kick from 'Vulgar...' is that:

There is a strong, very very narrow boost at 59hz which constitutes the bass kick portion of the bass drum. There is a very sharp cut at 609hz whilst there is also a boost at 6500hz. There's your 'boom' and 'click', Pantera style.

So judging from that, I'd say you're fairly safe to roll off everything below 59hz and you'll get a fairly solid bass sound.

 

[Matt Smith]

Thanks Moonlapse. I've never really had any sub problems on the kick (at least with samples), so I probably won't roll anything out there, but bass is what I really don't know about. Some people say the kick should provide your lowest frequencies, and some say the bass should.