"Behind the suit and tie" metal recording industry movie

[drunkard]

I hope this will not turn into a pro/con pirating thread again...but you're wrong!
of course a big band like megaseth still pays for the production with their share of royalties...so the prodcution costs are just part of the recoupable advance.
and whether or not they're drug addicts doesn't really matter...it's THEIR decision what they're shelling out their money for...or would you say "it's ok to steal from person a, cause person a is a huge soccer fan and spends all his money for soccer related stuff...soccer is stupid, so it's ok to take his money he's spend it for that stupid shit anyway"...who are you to decide what they spend their money for? is it ok to steal from a person just because you think they'd spend their money for shit anyway?
the band is paying for the production to make that money....thats a fact.


aparently you don't
please learn about how the record industry works before you embarass yourself with a post like that

Ok man not a problem you are right I am being embarassed right now.That was my opinion ,I am not Hitler talker ,If I am wrong in some words I ll be interested to learn,but stop talking like it was a personal attack to you.I expressed a general opinion.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

Ok man not a problem you are right I am being embarassed right now.That was my opinion ,I am not Hitler talker ,If I am wrong in some words I ll be interested to learn,but stop talking like it was a personal attack to you.I expressed a general opinion.

not taken as a personal attack...just tired of hearing the same excuses for stealing over and over again.
there have been tons of threads about this on this forum.
That's perhaps why my reply came across a bit harsh, wasn't meant to be a personal attack or anything...just wanted to make sure that this thread doesn't get derailed into a "piracy" thread again.

PLUS by illegally downloading Megadeth you're not only stealing from the band but also from Mr. Sneap himself. Not a kind thing to steal from the one person who supplies us with all this info and this great forum etc.

cheers

 

[drunkard]

not taken as a personal attack...just tired of hearing the same excuses for stealing over and over again.
there have been tons of threads about this on this forum.
That's perhaps why my reply came across a bit harsh, wasn't meant to be a personal attack or anything...just wanted to make sure that this thread doesn't get derailed into a "piracy" thread again.

cheers

Ok not a problem.But you didnt mention anything about the overpaid think I mentioned.I see that back then in the 80,90s bands where earning extremelly amounts of money.Eventhough they where big selling bands,they earned more money than they "should".Its also mention in the video.What do you think about that?I am sorry if my post is a little bit "straight forward" but I just saw this Behind the scened Dvd of Megadeth and all they do is talk about drugs and drugs and drugs and I really didnt like that .It seems that they try to sell the fact that they are drug users.and suddenly david ellefson comes up and say in the youtube vid "oh mp3 are a steal ,I paid for a cd ,You should pay also bla bla bla" and I really got confussed with the 2 videos I saw.

PS I am not for the mp3.I didnt say anything about downloading.I still buy cds and will

 

[TheDude]

Ok not a problem.But you didnt mention anything about the overpaid think I mentioned.I see that back then in the 80,90s bands where earning extremelly amounts of money.Eventhough they where big selling bands,they earned more money than they "should".Its also mention in the video.What do you think about that?I am sorry if my post is a little bit "straight forward" but I just saw this Behind the scened Dvd of Megadeth and all they do is talk about drugs and drugs and drugs and I really didnt like that .It seems that they try to sell the fact that they are drug users.and suddenly david ellefson comes up and say in the youtube vid "oh mp3 are a steal ,I paid for a cd ,You should pay also bla bla bla" and I really got confussed with the 2 videos I saw.

PS I am not for the mp3.I didnt say anything about downloading.I still buy cds and will

Sorry man, but you're wrong again. The bands that made "more money than they should", made that money through record sales. Let me put it this way: Clawfinger in the 90's. We sold about 600,000 of the first album, and we earned about €1 per sold album. Divided in four, since we shared the rights as a band. That's how record contract looked like in Sweden/Europe at the time. At the same time the label made about €8 per sold album.

Those figures were about average in the business then. We didn't get fucked, and we didn't get a great deal.

Now you give me an example of a band that earned more money than they should.

One example is enough.

 

[drunkard]

Sorry man, but you're wrong again. The bands that made "more money than they should", made that money through record sales. Let me put it this way: Clawfinger in the 90's. We sold about 600,000 of the first album, and we earned about €1 per sold album. Divided in four, since we shared the rights as a band. That's how record contract looked like in Sweden/Europe at the time. At the same time the label made about €8 per sold album.

Those figures were about average in the business then. We didn't get fucked, and we didn't get a great deal.

Now you give me an example of a band that earned more money than they should.

One example is enough.

Hey man I see your point but I think they guy is talking about concerts money not cd sales money.And if he is not talking about concert sales money,I was refering to concert money.I know what goes on with cd sales but I think 80 -90s bands where overpriced in concert money.Sorry I should have made it more clear.What do you think about that?

 

[nwright]

Hey man I see your point but I think they guy is talking about concerts money not cd sales money.And if he is not talking about concert sales money,I was refering to concert money.I know what goes on with cd sales but I think 80 -90s bands where overpriced in concert money.Sorry I should have made it more clear.What do you think about that?

I think this post is listed in Merriam Webster under the "backpedaling" definition.




Where in the world does the video ever reference concert money? No where in that vid or this discussion (for the most part) does that even come into play.

Why would record execs talk about concerts and the money generated for those, anyway?

 

[BLISTERINGMETAL]

Did any one catch this update? I just previewed the trailer and it does look pretty promising. it was only a matter of time before something like this was released and hope they don't cut any of the corruption story's out that would suck. The guys from Ferret/Good Fight Entertainment are pretty smart if you think about it, they are now sharing in all of their bands merch and concerts. how the fuck do these bands make any money if cd sales are down the shitter? HA HA did you hear what the dude from Earache Records said? LITTLE DOUCHE BAG KIDS DOWNLOADING MUSIC, UP YOURS BUDDY!

can't wait to see the full dvd


Metal Recording Industry Documentary Final Production RCA Music Group,Epic Records

Ed Rivadavia Sr. Director of digital marketing, (RCA Music Group), Jason Lekberg marketing manager, (Epic Records) and owner Daniel Herrdmann, (Tiefdruck Musik) are all confirmed to take part in the final filming production for the up and coming heavy metal music documentary 'Behind The Suit And Tie' , A Look Inside The Heavy Metal Recording Industry.

A raw six minute trailer of 'Behind The Suit And Tie' can be viewed below. The clip features segments from Eddie Trunk (VHI Classic, Q104.3, Sirius XM) ,Carl Severson (Good Fight Entertainment ,previous Ferret Music), Paul Conroy (Good Fight Entertainment,previous Ferret Music), David Ellefson (Megadeth), Brian Slagel (Metal Blade Records), Al Dawson (Earache Records) to discuss piracy,corruption issues and the future of a record label.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RYODH9dW1Y]CLICK HERE TO PREVIEW THE TRAILER[/ame]

Through a series of interviews with players from both major and indie labels ,Behind The Suit And Tie will also showcase the truth of how the music industry is being affected by the downward spiral of hard CD sales and new up-and-coming artists must learn to adjust to the changing times with today's major transition. according to a press release. 'Behind The Suit And Tie' will spend more time with the people behind the labels rather than the more musician-focused approach of most music documentaries to address piracy, corruption, manipulation issues and the future of a record label.

The ninety minute DVD will contain insight from:

Ed Rivadavia (RCA Music Group)
Jason Lekberg (Epic Records)
Brian Slagel (Metal Blade Records)
Carl Severson (Good Fight Entertainment)
Paul Conroy (Good Fight Entertainment)
Daniel Heerdmann (Tiefdruck Musik)
Doug Keogh (Roadrunner Records)
Missi Callazzo (MegaForce Records)
Doug Keogh (Roadrunner Records)
Ray Harkins (Century Media Records)
Al Dawson (Earache Records)
Alan Becker (Red Distribution)
Burt Goldstein (Big Daddy Distribution)
Eddie Trunk (VHI Classic, Q104.3, Sirius XM)
Pat Egan (Relapse Records)
Ralph Graupner (Indevent Music)
Gary Susalis (Music Choice)
Ged Cook (Demolition Records)
Bryan Mechutan (Frontiers Records)
Lee Barrett (Ascendance Records)
Adam Watson (Plastic Head Distribution)
David Ellefson (Megadeth)
Erik Rogers (Dangerous New Machine)
Tairrie B Murphy,Mick Murphy (My Ruin)
Rob "Blasko" Nicholson (Mercenary Management),(Ozzy Osbourne)
Rayny Forster (Moshpit Tragedy Records)

Commented: creator/producer Robert Bolger Jr.,I feel very honored to present these powerhouse labels/artist in my film,BIG! thanks to every one that took time out of their busy scheduled to sit down with us to lend their insight towards behind the suit and tie.

After four years in the making I'm very pleased to finally see the project taking shape,I'm still reviewing all the raw footage as we speak and still have not yet decided on the final promotional trailer. Recently i uploaded a few raw segments to showcase that the film had made some progresses.With or without a label support the film will see the light of day,count on it.

The DVD package is expected to be released some time in July.
For more information, visit www.behindthesuitandtie.com[/COLOR][/B][/COLOR][/B]

 

[Kazrog]

The other thing I will say about this is that it might make more of an impact on the mindset of pirates if they made the movie free/streaming. After all, it is essentially designed to bring the perspectives of real hard-working people who are on the smaller side of the industry to the forefront. This is a perspective that never gets any press. Direct-to-DVD release seems like the quickest way to ensure that the message is "preaching to the choir" and otherwise falling on deaf ears. Fine if they want to put out a DVD, but that should be in addition to streaming, not the sole release medium.

They could always monetize the streaming version with ads...

 

[xturbox]

there is no fair in any business. new technology hurts some and benefits others. those who adapt survive (constructal theory).

 

[Melb_shredder]

Ok... just to HOPEFULLY add to this in a constructive way!

From the bands I've met/ played with, of international calibre, eg, your Amon Amarth, Opeth etc bands like this.
Merch is probably the highest pay, per night that bands recieve on tour, some of these bands get about $500 - 1000 per member per gig from playing, depending on agreement of course, and merch sales, lets say if even 200 people bought $40 tees, thats $8000 right there... and we know it's going to be more sales than that over the night, now taking into account a bands share from merch, then it's possible to see where the shift is in TOURING metal bands pay

 

[TheDude]

Hey man I see your point but I think they guy is talking about concerts money not cd sales money.And if he is not talking about concert sales money,I was refering to concert money.I know what goes on with cd sales but I think 80 -90s bands where overpriced in concert money.Sorry I should have made it more clear.What do you think about that?

We did several tours where we "supported the album", which means that we took all chances we got to tour, that meant lower fees and more shows. When we'd sold a lot of albums, more people wanted to see us = larger venues = larger production = more money spent and received. When Rammstein did their "Mutter" tour in 2001 they went pretty much break even, even if they had 10-20,000 people per night. Their production cost was €100,000 per day. They had 47 people in their crew, not including the locals. I bet they wasn't cheap, and I bet that everybody involved made lots of money.

I'd really like to have an example of an overpaid artist. Just one.

 

[thefyn]

We did several tours where we "supported the album", which means that we took all chances we got to tour, that meant lower fees and more shows. When we'd sold a lot of albums, more people wanted to see us = larger venues = larger production = more money spent and received. When Rammstein did their "Mutter" tour in 2001 they went pretty much break even, even if they had 10-20,000 people per night. Their production cost was €100,000 per day. They had 47 people in their crew, not including the locals. I bet they wasn't cheap, and I bet that everybody involved made lots of money.

I'd really like to have an example of an overpaid artist. Just one.

I remembering watching a Metallica doc and it said that they were one of the only bands that actually makes a guaranteed profit when they go on tour. It was probably a bit general but I doubt tours ever make much money.

 

[smy1]

TheDude: if your material production cost (incl. transport) is 100k Euro per day, your crew costs you 20k a day and you get 10k people for only 50 Euros per ticket (and Rammstein tickets cost more than that), you are already at 500k gross income from tickets alone. Even if you gave away 50% of that to the venue, then you'd still be making a profit. AND that totally leaves out merchandise, which Rammstein sells like CRAZY.

I don't know who gets paid what in their organization and I don't know who told you the figures, but if you pull 10k people per concert today, you are definitely making good money. Even if your production is at the upper end of the spectrum, like Rammstein's.


Melb_shredder: on the other hand - no one but the highest ranked bands in their genre can sell substantial amounts of shirts for $40. In today's economy $25 for a shirt is already bordering on "unaffordable" for many fans.

 

[TheDude]

TheDude: if your material production cost (incl. transport) is 100k Euro per day, your crew costs you 20k a day and you get 10k people for only 50 Euros per ticket (and Rammstein tickets cost more than that), you are already at 500k gross income from tickets alone. Even if you gave away 50% of that to the venue, then you'd still be making a profit. AND that totally leaves out merchandise, which Rammstein sells like CRAZY.

The Mutter tour was 2001. Tickets didn't cost 50 Euro back then. It was Richard who told me that in a one on one discussion, and I think he has some knowledge about his situation, wouldn't you think so? They probably make more money now, sure. Good for them. I don't have any fresh info on that.

 

[ElektricEyez]

The way I understand how the industry works, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, is that bands who got signed to a label would essentially get a nice big fat bonus check. Only it wasn't a bonus check at all, it was a loan - yes a loan in which the band had to pay back in record sales or out of pocket if their record didn't sell well. And that loan was meant to pay for the recording process, many times in the cost of 40-90k (usd) per CD, which included all recording mixing and mastering, and the remainder of the check went to a tour bus, and a few other living expenses. Well the record sales, something as ridicules as say 90% of the profits all went to the record companies to pay off the loan and also new expenses for other bands etc. Well a year goes by, the band that got signed needs to write a new album and hope its a hit record, because in many sad cases the previous album either barely paid for the first loan or hasn't paid it off yet. Most of the money that bands made in the past was from selling merch, however because of lower CD sales, the record companies are now dipping into the merch sales of the bands to make up the costs. Maybe thats why those 2 dudes on the video were saying they would rather have the profits from the merch?

So even at the early stages of a newly signed artist, even if they sell millions of CD's they could still be very broke on their first few albums. Most record companies are making profits from only a handful of artists, and especially pop music where the new flaver of the week can change daily, people are just fickle that way.

So to say that bands didnt work their butts off for their music that they are selling is just plain wrong. Being on the road and all the fame and glory, also comes at a price as well. Trust me they pay for it, and many artists are still paying for it.

I had the chance to speak with a guitarist from a popular metal band recently who stated that he doesn't have the money to even pay for a new amp, even if he wanted it, that he had to wait for the record company to purchase it and for the endorsement contract to sign off, and this is after 3 good selling albums.

My question is how is the record industry going to adapt to the way things are. I seriously doubt file sharing is going to go away, no matter how much it bothers many of us, especially those who understand the music business financial aspect. I say if you enjoy a band, support them any chance you get, especially the metal bands, because they are at the lower end of the financial food chain.

 

[iHate]

Fuck it, music is not coming back. It's never going to be as profitable as pre-file sharing. Too many people think that all rockstars are rich, so they feel entitled to getting music for free. I come across people who think that KsE are millionaires. LOL.

Let the labels fucking burn. Nobody really needs them when the CD-lover generation dies down. Taking cuts from merch and touring? Hahahaha, fuck them. I love CD's as much as any other 80's-90's kid, but give it another 5 years and CD's will be damn hard to find anywhere. Who wants to drive to the store, burn more gasoline, fuck with that annoying cellophane wrapping and even more annoying sticker that never comes off cleanly, only to get a mix in the style of Greg Fidelman to jam on a $1500 car stereo? Then find out, the CD didn't even come with any damn liner notes. What a fucking rip off. Myspace player does the clipping just as well, and for free. Nothing new is really on the horizon. No kind of paying service is ever going to work for music again unless the gov't totally bans file sharing. But oh noes, that's infringing on the freedoms of us freedom deserving file sharing theives. How ironic...

Time to jump ship.

 

[ElektricEyez]

I'm just waiting for the day when we can have iPods and Thumb drives that come with terabytes and 24 bit resolution converters. Maybe then file sharing will slow down, and people will pay for high fidelity audio, as opposed to an Mp3. There are some people who prefer better sounding music. Which is why records are still being sold.

 

[Kazrog]

I, along with many others, prefer the sound of vinyl these days - an experience that can't be pirated and sounds far better than any digital format I've yet tried (still waiting for some SACD and DVD-Audio in the mail to do a proper shoot-out on my hi fi system.) Vinyl is seeing a massive sales resurgence.

As for my strategy now (not for everyone, but a good idea for some)...

I plan to release my next album on vinyl as well as FLAC lossless @ 24 bit. Every metal band I can think of that's put together a killer vinyl package in the last couple of years has done well with it. I only purchase albums on vinyl now. I would also purchase lossless downloadable albums if I could, but almost nobody is doing this yet (Why not, anyway? Backmask was doing this years ago!)

 

[ElektricEyez]

Must be nice getting everything on vinyl! There is such a small market for high fidelity its sad, DVD audio I think was supposed to be the next step in high audio format, but it never really caught on, which is a shame with surround sound systems these days. Most people want 40 albums on an iPod, which is why file sharing is so rampant, its so quick and easy to download a song. Imagine a high fidelity song that took something like 30 min per song to download, then it would slow down and people would find value in their listening experience again. For me personally I have an 8 gig stick that connects to my CD deck in my car, and a cell phone with a 16 gig mem card that I can listen to when I go out riding. But trust me, if I had a few terabytes of space, and a really high fidelity audio player, I'd be getting me some 24 bit songs instead, its just that it takes so much space.

I do think however, that many people who like to enjoy their music are starting to catch on to what they are missing in lower quality Mp3 files.

 

[MEGA DAVE]

it's a shame people arent buying cd's as much anymore, everyone on these metal labels are getting the shaft anymore and it's sad to see these labels struggling, all the crew at metalblade are great dudes (and girl lol)