BORKNAGAR - Epic

JayKeeley

Be still, O wand'rer!
Apr 26, 2002
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www.royalcarnage.com
Borknagar – Epic
Century Media
2004

1. Future Reminiscence
2. Traveller
3. Origin
4. Sealed Chambers of Electricity
5. The Weight of Wind
6. Resonance
7. Relate
8. Cyclus
9. Circled
10. The Inner Ocean Hypothesis
12. Quintessence
13. The Wonder


Well, it’s July, and the award for “Disappointment of the Year” has now been penciled in. A total side-step to the right, and a quick step down the ladder of ingenuity from what was Empiricism, Vintersorg and crew are now just going through the motions. Not that the album is a disaster, but I expect much more from a band that were once near the forefront of creativity. Another way to best describe this change, or lack thereof, is to suggest that where previous BORKNAGAR efforts might have intrigued fans of, say, ARCTURUS, current offerings are now beginning to float dangerously near DIMMU BORGIR-infested open waters. In other words, even the traditional eclectic nature, although still present, is becoming…stale. Time to change the recipe me thinks.

Key enablers, however, fall within the ranks of Vintersorg (vocals) and Lars Nedland (keyboards). The vocals are ‘nearly’ excellent, with Vintersorg doing his absolute best to make up for songs that seem lackluster – honestly, some of the riffs could have been written in a day - and Nedland showing off his ivory tinkling skills that put his main band, SOLEFALD, on the map last year with the phenomenal In Harmonia Universali. Of course, there are some great moments to be heard on Epic, but the certain consistency on either Empricism or Quintessence is to be found no longer.

Point worth noting, there are LOTS of clean vocals on this album. There are LOTS of falsettos throughout, and the quieter moments on songs like “Sealed Chambers of Electricity” or “Relate” could quite possibly be the gayest thing this side of George Michael’s public toilet hole in the wall. Vintersorg even manages to go completely over the top this time with his ‘whoa whoas’, ‘aaah aaahs’, and Al Pacino-inspired ‘hoo hahs’. The way I see it, if you’ve already got soaring keyboards, do you really need to double them up with soaring mantra-like chants? SOILWORK this is not, let’s keep it that way.

Anyway, to summarize, if you’ve got other BORKNAGAR albums, you don’t really need Epic since it doesn’t improve on what you’ve already got. Pretty simple arithmetic really. Let’s just say that the ‘progressive’ tag can now be dropped, and other better albums await your hard-earned cash. After all, as a listener, it is your right to demand absolute perfection, and musicians of this caliber should be delivering that by now.

6/10
 
a shame, as I wanted this to be a step up from EMpiricism, which IMO was good, but not great and a step down from Quintessence.
 
Papa Josh said:
For the record, I disagree with this review. Guess I should bump the official thread to discuss that. But bottom line, been listening for almost a month now and I enjoy it.

OK. Do you think it's better than their last two albums?
 
This album is excellent and hardly deserves such a harsh review. This album is in many ways similar to Empiricism and while right now, doesn't seem as good, it gets better and better and better everytime I listen to it until I'm not sure if it's going to surpass the absolute greatness that is Empiricism. Even after the first few listens I was thinking this isn't the best they could have done, but let me tell you right now that it takes far more than a few listens to even begin to unravel. This album is better than The Archaic Course and Quintessence both and absoleutely crushes the aforementioned Arcturus' last release, which was a bore. Also, besides the fact that Simen is now in Dimmu Borgir, these bands have no further ties, so I find that comparison ridiculous. And as a final note, I don't see how anyone could call any of the moments on this album gay and hail Hammers of Misfortune (I AM THE MAELSTROM'S DEAFENING SONG...) Not that I want to start another eighteen page flame war, nor am I taking a shot at them, but give me a fucking break. Anyone who can listen to that without thinking there are gay moments has little room to talk about Borknagar. I don't know how much you actually listened to the album before passing judgement and writing this review, but I suggest spinning it a few more times.
 
Opeth17 said:
This album is excellent and hardly deserves such a harsh review. This album is in many ways similar to Empiricism and while right now, doesn't seem as good, it gets better and better and better everytime I listen to it until I'm not sure if it's going to surpass the absolute greatness that is Empiricism. Even after the first few listens I was thinking this isn't the best they could have done, but let me tell you right now that it takes far more than a few listens to even begin to unravel. This album is better than The Archaic Course and Quintessence both and absoleutely crushes the aforementioned Arcturus' last release, which was a bore. Also, besides the fact that Simen is now in Dimmu Borgir, these bands have no further ties, so I find that comparison ridiculous. And as a final note, I don't see how anyone could call any of the moments on this album gay and hail Hammers of Misfortune (I AM THE MAELSTROM'S DEAFENING SONG...) Not that I want to start another eighteen page flame war, nor am I taking a shot at them, but give me a fucking break. Anyone who can listen to that without thinking there are gay moments has little room to talk about Borknagar. I don't know how much you actually listened to the album before passing judgement and writing this review, but I suggest spinning it a few more times.
Well, what can I say? You disagree with the review, but you bought the album anyway. So your problem with me having a different opinion is...? You do realize that reviews are subjective right? I'm not sure if I understand what you're expecting here by wanting me to listen to the album more. Sorry, but I prefer earlier Borknagar efforts, and they didn't push the envelope on this one. Again, just my opinion.

And what do Hammers of Misfortune have to do with anything here? I'm not sure whether female vocals being 'gay' is a very strong argument, wouldn't you agree? You do realize that your HoM quote is sung by a woman, right?
 
JayKeeley said:
Well, what can I say? You disagree with the review, but you bought the album anyway. So your problem with me having a different opinion is...? You do realize that reviews are subjective right? I'm not sure if I understand what you're expecting here by wanting me to listen to the album more. Sorry, but I prefer earlier Borknagar efforts, and they didn't push the envelope on this one. Again, just my opinion.

And what do Hammers of Misfortune have to do with anything here? I'm not sure whether female vocals being 'gay' is a very strong argument, wouldn't you agree? You do realize that your HoM quote is sung by a woman, right?

I bought the album without reading the review, but your right, I'd have bought it anyway. What I'm saying is that if you liked Empiricism, but slag off Epic to such a high degree, it seems baffling to me as I find the albums similar in many ways and perhaps you didn't give the album enough time to absorb. I've certainly found it to be the least immediate in their collection.

As for Hammers of Misfortune, vocals are vocals, gay is simply another way of saying cheesy in my book and in my opinion, all of their vocals come off a lot cheesier (aka gayer) than any of the moments on this album. Anyway, we'll drop discussing vocals again, I just had a hard time understanding why you'd take a shot at the vocals on this album, when I find many of the things you listen to fit the description equally.
 
I think you should read my review again. If you want a harsh review, go read my Madder Mortem review or something. A 6/10 score is not bad per se, but then it's not exactly classic status either, and I'm sticking to that. If you think Epic is a step forward for the band, then good for you. Personally, I thought it was a sidestep and therfore felt it was 'stale'. Even if it was Empiricism's equal, why would I want two versions of the same record?

"Taking a shot at the vocals on this album"??? Well, let's see. I mention that the vocals are 'nearly excellent', where both Vintersorg and Nedland actually are the highlights of the album. It's Vintersorg's 'woah woahs' and whatever else he's doing that I can live without.

No I do NOT think this is as good as Empiricism. There are no tracks on Epic that come close to those like "The Stellar Dome" or "Genuine Pulse". Yet I quote, "there are great moments to be found on Epic, but the consistency [of the last two albums] is to be found no longer". Again, I standby this.

I'm not sure how to comment on your "HoM vocals being gay" or whatever, your opinion on them holds little bearing with me. It holds a little more weight to hear it from someone who can compare HoM to other bands of their ilk, or perhaps reference their influences, etc. It's clear that HoM have a retro feel, and it's no surprise to me that the people who like HoM are also those that like older music that dates back further than Opeth or In Flames.

Finally, feel free to search other reviews on Borknagar's Epic and see what others are thinking. Check the UM reviews for a start. Or ask others on the forum for their opinions. It'll be interesting to see what others think of the album.
 
Then we'll certainly leave it at that, as apparently we both have our views and neither is going to change. What I've been saying the whole time is that I find it hard for someone who really enjoyed Empiricism, to not like this album. But if that is your view, we'll leave it at that. I find it at least as consistent as the previous record, yet still maintaining the moments that made it great, but apparently we aren't seeing the same thing in this record and are therefore getting nowhere.

Also, nice try with taking a shot at Opeth and In Flames like everyone else. But if Hammers of Misfortune are any indication of "older music" outside of the good ol' Southern Rock I enjoy on occasion, I'll more than gladly pass and stick with the more than hefty amounts of "post Opeth" music I've come to enjoy. :Spin:
 
Right, it's all about differing tastes, which I think is what confused me when you initially barked at the review. Over time, you'll realize more and more that some reviews aren't necessarily going to portray the same opinion to that of yours.

I can appreciate both Borknagar and Hammers of Misfortune in different ways, and I feel lucky for enjoying more than one genre. I wasn't insuating anything by mentioning Opeth and In Flames, but if that's your only frame of reference from this point forward, you'd only be selling yourself short wouldn't you? But hey, different strokes...

EDIT: Here's the review at UM. It's a different take obviously, but an interesting read nonetheless: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158877

Some more - in order, just taken straight off a google search for "borknagar epic review":

http://www.into-obscurity.com/reviews/reviews.asp?reviewID=1408

http://www.chroniclesofchaos.com/Articles.aspx?id=2-3512

http://www.metalcoven.com/review_borknagar_epic.html

I have no idea what these 'zines are like otherwise. I think, however, both Metal-Rules.com and Metal-Observer.com might have really liked it, but I, like most people at RC, generally don't give much credence to their reviews.

It's good to read more than one review I think and this has been an interesting discussion.
 
JayKeeley's review sums up my thoughts about this album in a brilliant way. At first listen, I was VERY disappointed with the album - I found that there was too much stuff going on, too many melodies at the same time, some disonnance and disharmonies now and then, and Vintersorg going completely over the top at times. I still bought the album, because I thought this was something I had to listen to a vast number of times before managing to grasp its excellence.

Well, having listened to it a lot more, I'm still a tad disappointed by it. Granted, every song have interesting moments, but there are still too much elements that I don't like that much. I think a 6.5 out of 10 is a fair score. Empiricism, Quintessence and The Archaic Course are MUCH better.
 
Well, again I disagree as the more I play it, the more I am impressed. I can confidently now say that this album is much better than Empiricism because it is the next logical step in the band's progression. I believe JayKeeley used the term "sidestep" which I fail to see as a negative term and I'm wondering if he meant step backwards....

Either way, I think the album is fantastic and lives up to its name, Epic.

 
Actually, just to be precise, I said, "A total side-step to the right, and a quick step down the ladder of ingenuity from what was Empiricism". :)

I'm glad that some people are liking this more than Empiricism. Not me though unfortunately.
 
JayKeeley said:
Actually, just to be precise, I said, "A total side-step to the right, and a quick step down the ladder of ingenuity from what was Empiricism". :)

.
I was actually referring to this statement: "Personally, I thought it was a sidestep and therfore felt it was 'stale'. Even if it was Empiricism's equal, why would I want two versions of the same record?"

The answer to your last question is simple. The same reason you enjoy multiple BOLT THROWER albums.
 
Papa Josh said:
I was actually referring to this statement: "Personally, I thought it was a sidestep and therfore felt it was 'stale'. Even if it was Empiricism's equal, why would I want two versions of the same record?"

The answer to your last question is simple. The same reason you enjoy multiple BOLT THROWER albums.
Right, and AC/DC, Iced Earth, Amon Amarth, and numerous others. However, I like all those bands a LOT more than Borknagar.

Are you telling me that you would give every Bolt Thrower album the same review write up and score just because they are all 'side-step' efforts?

Case in point: Iced Earth's Something Wicked was a 'side-step' to Dark Saga. However, I liked Something Wicked more, so I would give it a slightly better review. It's really pretty simple.

I think there's some confusion here in that people are expecting me to fall to the feet of Borknagar. Even though I like Empiricism a lot more than Epic, I don't think I would give Empiricism more than an 7.5 or maybe 8/10.

Been there, done that. Lets move along. Nothing more to see here. These aren't the droids you're looking for. Roger. Victor.

The End.