buying a tube head without being able to play it loud!?

FIXXXER

¯\(°_o)/¯
Feb 18, 2008
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Germany
hey guys,

poor me, i've lways been a direct recording guy as i never
had a place where i could crank up an amp...

i have tried so many different products, some were ok,
some were the biggest shit and some were awesome like
my lately purchased AXE-FX II! :D

the only problem i have with the axe is it's complexity,
there are so many things to set up that i can't see through this all.

right now i am having seriuos problems to level out my signal as
almost every damn setting makes the sound either to low or makes it clip.

honestly i also really do not need so many effects, amp models etc.
as i mostly end up using a simple AMP+CAB setup with a 5150, or dual rectifier model...

now i am thinkng baout buying a mini 5150 III and the torpedo live loadbox
but i am not sure if i could get any close to the absolutely killer sound of the AXE-FX II.

any suggestions?

cheers
S.
 
I'm looking at same thing atm really... my plan is to basically get decent amps (I already own a Marshall JCM900-SLX and a Laney ProTube) and to use Redwirez impulses for cab'ing. I used to be an amplitube user but i notice a big difference in sound quality between a real jcm and an amplitube one through the same impulse so I will probably abandon vst's at some point.

I suppose it depends what you want to do with it. For live then yeah, I can see the appeal of Torpedo Live. For recording then honestly I don't see any point... even just going from the line out on my JCM900 offers a big improvement in quality imo.

What I need to figure out is what DI boxe I can buy to can convert speaker outputs to line level without introducing any cab sims/filtering, then I'll just get a decent DI box and a reactive load (something like Tonehound assuming its quiet enough) and then that will let me record my Amps-->DI Box-->Load(Tonehound?)-->SaffirePro40-->Reaper-->Redwirez.

Hopefully won't cost me too much either compared to the mega price tag of Torpedo Live. I could get another valve amp for that tbh.
 
As Jake said : With the loadbox you don't have any external sound, so you don't have to buy a low wattage amp like a mini 5150. You can buy the "normal" 5150/6505.
Imo an Axe II is a waste of money if you're out for a simple Amp + Cab Setup, and I think you'll achieve better results with the torpedo + a tube amp.
I'm pretty sure you already know this video, but I'm posting it anyway :p
 
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If you are buying a tube head and a loadbox, you could go direct through a direct box and use impulses as speaker emulation. No external sound whatsoever.

Here is a clip of this setup using an impulse IR that I made and am giving away for free:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8838613/Lasse Mago Impulse Test 4 (V2).mp3

actually i am trying to avoid that, it gives too many options in the end where i'll end up messing around with 10000 IR's and looking which one is best,
and then changing everything every few days :D

also playing the amp while monitoring the IR in my sequencer must feel weird due to the latency. sure it's minimal but i had this kind of setup with an ENGL E530 preamp. i used the line out and then added IR's using revalver, sounded
ok but not really good, it always feld kind of "lose" and "floppy"

your track sounds really goud though! :)


I'm looking at same thing atm really... my plan is to basically get decent amps (I already own a Marshall JCM900-SLX and a Laney ProTube) and to use Redwirez impulses for cab'ing. I used to be an amplitube user but i notice a big difference in sound quality between a real jcm and an amplitube one through the same impulse so I will probably abandon vst's at some point.

I suppose it depends what you want to do with it. For live then yeah, I can see the appeal of Torpedo Live. For recording then honestly I don't see any point... even just going from the line out on my JCM900 offers a big improvement in quality imo.

What I need to figure out is what DI boxe I can buy to can convert speaker outputs to line level without introducing any cab sims/filtering, then I'll just get a decent DI box and a reactive load (something like Tonehound assuming its quiet enough) and then that will let me record my Amps-->DI Box-->Load(Tonehound?)-->SaffirePro40-->Reaper-->Redwirez.

Hopefully won't cost me too much either compared to the mega price tag of Torpedo Live. I could get another valve amp for that tbh.

it would be for recording only, i still like to record a signal as direct as possible that's why i am looking at the torpedo :)

As Jake said : With the loadbox you don't have any external sound, so you don't have to buy a low wattage amp like a mini 5150. You can buy the "normal" 5150/6505.
Imo an Axe II is a waste of money if you're out for a simple Amp + Cab Setup, and I think you'll achieve better results with the torpedo + a tube amp.
I'm pretty sure you already know this video, but I'm posting it anyway :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnxWVN9Tsfw

hehe, that video actually made me think about this setup! :D

i've mentioned the mini 5150 II just it's much cheaper as the original and i think that i do not need 100 watt for bedroom recording.

cheers
S.
 
Well I'm watching on here because I'm thinking of doing exactly the same thing, mini amp head with torpedo live. Not to mention I've got full gear lust for about four different mini amp heads. One thought I had was that and Axe-fx, kemper, or even the torpedo will be out of date in a few years but your amp heads won't. Going this route you'll only have to update your load/IR box.
 
You can't get closer to a real amp sound with using a real amp ;)
A real amp + very good load and impulses then there's only the dynamic frequency response of the speaker and the moving air left to the perfect non micing tone. So i would always choose the way with a real amp over sims when its only a matter of loudness and not price.
I find 100W obsolete when recording with IRs that's why i pulled 2 powertubes out of my 5150. The 5150III mini has also only 2 tubes and it doesn't sound that different from his big brother. So when you don't need the headroom then i would choose the mini version. but when you want to play it live too than i would take the big version. with only 2 powertubes my amp starts to compress between postgain 3-4 and that sounds shit.
 
Well I'm watching on here because I'm thinking of doing exactly the same thing, mini amp head with torpedo live. Not to mention I've got full gear lust for about four different mini amp heads. One thought I had was that and Axe-fx, kemper, or even the torpedo will be out of date in a few years but your amp heads won't. Going this route you'll only have to update your load/IR box.

i am eagerly awaiting AXE FX II firmware 10, seems like it's going to be
really a big step forward, so maybe i'll get happy with this at the end.

still, having some real amps is surely the nicer thing...


You can't get closer to a real amp sound with using a real amp ;)
A real amp + very good load and impulses then there's only the dynamic frequency response of the speaker and the moving air left to the perfect non micing tone. So i would always choose the way with a real amp over sims when its only a matter of loudness and not price.
I find 100W obsolete when recording with IRs that's why i pulled 2 powertubes out of my 5150. The 5150III mini has also only 2 tubes and it doesn't sound that different from his big brother. So when you don't need the headroom then i would choose the mini version. but when you want to play it live too than i would take the big version. with only 2 powertubes my amp starts to compress between postgain 3-4 and that sounds shit.

it seems like there are many compromises to be made...

what about preamps!?
i used to have a ENGL E530 and i got some real good tones out of it using IR's
but it was kind of special, i could get great tones but not THAT tone i wanted.
 
There was an idea I heard about a while ago that involved putting a direct box in the effects loop and cranking the gain before sending it to the speakers. As far as I could tell, that would allow the tubes to be cranked without shattering your windows. Anyone have any insight on this?
 
Laney's got some head with a load box built in and USB for recording for $500...might not be the quality you are going for, but pretty cool idea. I'm thinking about getting that & using impulses because it's still a little "preamp" sounding from what I've heard so far.
 
Since the Torpedo emulates a power amp though...you could have 5 different tube preamps for the price of some of the heads out there that probably wont sound that much different once it gets to the other side of the torpedo...You got the ADA, JMP, Mesa Studio/Quad, SP77, Rockmaster, Randal RM4 (maybe better route with all the modules there). I always wanted to get the Rm12 and fill it up and have all the amp sounds you could ever want.

You wouldn't need the load box & could get the Torpedo Cab instead too. More $ for more preamps, some mods to get your desired sound, effects, etc...if there's a killer impulse, the Torpedo CAB can load those...lots of options. Get two Torpedo CABS and use different sounds with a delayed signal to the other, all kinds of fun hehe
 
There was an idea I heard about a while ago that involved putting a direct box in the effects loop and cranking the gain before sending it to the speakers. As far as I could tell, that would allow the tubes to be cranked without shattering your windows. Anyone have any insight on this?

Very dumb idea, unless you like replacing tubes all of the time. Why this is a dumb idea is that the output of the preamp is low impedance and the input of the power amp is high impedance. What the direct box is essentially doing is showing the preamp a very high impedance, and the power amp a very low impedance. This is the opposite of a good idea. I'm not sure where this was posted, but I would reconsider that websites' advice on how to use tube amps from now on :lol:
 
Very dumb idea, unless you like replacing tubes all of the time. Why this is a dumb idea is that the output of the preamp is low impedance and the input of the power amp is high impedance. What the direct box is essentially doing is showing the preamp a very high impedance, and the power amp a very low impedance. This is the opposite of a good idea. I'm not sure where this was posted, but I would reconsider that websites' advice on how to use tube amps from now on :lol:

It was actually on here somewhere :lol:
 
Soultrash... Stick with the Axe FX II. You’ll eventually regret it.

Preset leveling is really easy! All you need to do is get your tone to sound the way you want it and then set your amp volume to match your other presets. You don’t control the overall volume with the Master Volume knob. That controls how hard the "virtual" power amp tubes are driven. With the higher gain amps, just set it around between 3 and 5. Anything more and the tone on the high gain amps gets flubby.

I’ve also been right on the edge of wanting to sell my Axe due to the lack of Axe Edit with newer firmwares, but I’ve thought about the other options and nothing else makes sense anymore. I’ve made my mind up to stick it out with the Axe and just hope that edit comes soon. Once Edit TNP releases, patch editing should be easy again.

Seriously, if you would like assistance with creating patches, I can do my best to help you.
 
An amp sim is never going to sound as good as real tube amp, so why waste your money and time? The real amp/loadbox/IR route really is the best way to for home recording, assuming of course you're looking you aren't looking for a ton of different tones.
 
^I don't think an amp sim like the AxeFx can't sound good especially when recorded. I doubt your listeners will care even slightly whether it's an amp sim or a real amp as long as it sounds good. As for me, I do prefer a real amp but mostly because I find it way more satisfying as a guitarist, not as a listener of the final product.
 
Get rid off the Axe-Fx and get a Kemper, easier to use, imho better sounds, done ;)
If you ever get an amp, profile it, if you got friends with nice amps, play them at their
place and profile them :D
 
There was an idea I heard about a while ago that involved putting a direct box in the effects loop and cranking the gain before sending it to the speakers. As far as I could tell, that would allow the tubes to be cranked without shattering your windows. Anyone have any insight on this?

hmm, could work...or it could blow everything up :lol:

Laney's got some head with a load box built in and USB for recording for $500...might not be the quality you are going for, but pretty cool idea. I'm thinking about getting that & using impulses because it's still a little "preamp" sounding from what I've heard so far.

i'm more into geting an used 5150 or so, not really convinced about real amps with direct rec outs, USB etc.

Since the Torpedo emulates a power amp though...you could have 5 different tube preamps for the price of some of the heads out there that probably wont sound that much different once it gets to the other side of the torpedo...You got the ADA, JMP, Mesa Studio/Quad, SP77, Rockmaster, Randal RM4 (maybe better route with all the modules there). I always wanted to get the Rm12 and fill it up and have all the amp sounds you could ever want.

You wouldn't need the load box & could get the Torpedo Cab instead too. More $ for more preamps, some mods to get your desired sound, effects, etc...if there's a killer impulse, the Torpedo CAB can load those...lots of options. Get two Torpedo CABS and use different sounds with a delayed signal to the other, all kinds of fun hehe

i only tested the software torpedo thing, sounded not better than any other
IR host. it's supposed to have the same technology as the hardware stuff so i am not really sure about this. it would be the most simple solution though and i might test it. i definitively want a hardware unit though.

Very dumb idea, unless you like replacing tubes all of the time. Why this is a dumb idea is that the output of the preamp is low impedance and the input of the power amp is high impedance. What the direct box is essentially doing is showing the preamp a very high impedance, and the power amp a very low impedance. This is the opposite of a good idea. I'm not sure where this was posted, but I would reconsider that websites' advice on how to use tube amps from now on :lol:

good to know man! :)

like you i ihad an axe fx and made me want a real amp and cab just cause ive never played thru one. like you i also cannot play that loud cause of my housing but i went and got a 5150 and a mesa oversize straight cab just cause it was my dream rig for years. now its sitting in my room for decoration :) but i still love that i own it. i still havent played the thing past 1 on the volume

exactly what i am afraid of, if i buy it i want to use it somehow, still a pretty badass room decoration! :D

Soultrash... Stick with the Axe FX II. You’ll eventually regret it.

Preset leveling is really easy! All you need to do is get your tone to sound the way you want it and then set your amp volume to match your other presets. You don’t control the overall volume with the Master Volume knob. That controls how hard the "virtual" power amp tubes are driven. With the higher gain amps, just set it around between 3 and 5. Anything more and the tone on the high gain amps gets flubby.

I’ve also been right on the edge of wanting to sell my Axe due to the lack of Axe Edit with newer firmwares, but I’ve thought about the other options and nothing else makes sense anymore. I’ve made my mind up to stick it out with the Axe and just hope that edit comes soon. Once Edit TNP releases, patch editing should be easy again.

Seriously, if you would like assistance with creating patches, I can do my best to help you.

i'm ok with using the front panell for patches but it's real PITA compared to AE. i'll await FW10 and a hopefully soon release of AE. there's a few more things that i don't like about the axe. the product never feels finished, i often find myself waiting for a new release instead of working with the existing stuff...FW10 will bring the decision, if this doesn't work out well i really might head a head + a torpedo unit.

another thing that bothers me about the AXE II. it has too many options i personally consider useful, it could be minimizes and simplified but the trend seems to be in the exact oposite direction, not sure what to think about this.

An amp sim is never going to sound as good as real tube amp, so why waste your money and time? The real amp/loadbox/IR route really is the best way to for home recording, assuming of course you're looking you aren't looking for a ton of different tones.

that's one of the problems, i can't stick to just one spcific tone, that's why i
got the axe. on the othe rhand i am also not using every amp, more like 2-4.

^I don't think an amp sim like the AxeFx can't sound good especially when recorded. I doubt your listeners will care even slightly whether it's an amp sim or a real amp as long as it sounds good. As for me, I do prefer a real amp but mostly because I find it way more satisfying as a guitarist, not as a listener of the final product.

the sound itself is not the main problem here, it's more about the feeling,
simplicity etc. also, setting an amp/cab/mic up is just more pleasing than turning the axe on and loading a preset :lol:

Get rid off the Axe-Fx and get a Kemper, easier to use, imho better sounds, done ;)
If you ever get an amp, profile it, if you got friends with nice amps, play them at their
place and profile them :D

not a fan of the kemper, may test it though. i haven't heard any
soundfile that sounded better than what i can get with the axe II.
also i don't like the concept, yeah, the kemper is tweakable but it's still
like having a VST and using presets only.