Can we talk tom processing....

[chadsxe]

I have a hell of a time making my toms audible at any level during my mix. I think I am finding the the toms are just masked by the kick way to much. I was thinking maybe I should lower the kick a few dB when the toms are being used.

Also about those toms Andy had posted. Were those ment to be blended or are the pretty much a replacemnet.

 

[musickey]

I have a hell of a time making my toms audible at any level during my mix. I think I am finding the the toms are just masked by the kick way to much. I was thinking maybe I should lower the kick a few dB when the toms are being used.

Also about those toms Andy had posted. Were those ment to be blended or are the pretty much a replacemnet.

I think you can do either or with the Sneap Toms. I have problems getting Toms to sound HUGE i dont really want to use samples i just bought 4 e604's for toms and would like to know what PLUG-IN'S and settings people use to get there toms sounding huge without sound replacing or better yet what is other peoples process on sampling your own tom's

 

[Tachy]

I think that the toms must be not replaced with sample....one years ago I tried some byer dinamics conderser mic with clips for toms and the sound was awesome only with a little eq ( if I remember correcly I cutted only the bass at 100hz )

 

[cobhc]

Scooping the low mids out is the key, otherwise they sound flabby, and add some higher mids to keep some definition.

For instance using Cubase/Nuendo's Track EQ's

Rack Tom 1 -24db@400hz Q of 0.0 +3db@5500hz Q of 0.0
Rack Tom 2 -24db@350hz Q of 0.0 +3db@5500hz Q of 0.0
Rack Tom 3 -24db@300hz Q of 0.0 +3db@5500hz Q of 0.0
Floor Tom 1 -24db@250hz Q of 0.0 +3db@5500hz Q of 0.0
Floor Tom 2 -24db@200hz Q of 0.0 +3db@5500hz Q of 0.0

Using these settings with decent mics should get you pretty close to Andy's Tom sound. Also run a decent compressor with similar settings to your kick.

 

[chadsxe]

Scooping the low mids out is the key, otherwise they sound flabby, and add some higher mids to keep some definition.

For instance using Cubase/Nuendo's Track EQ's

Rack Tom 1 -24db@400hz Q of 0.0 +3db@5500hz Q of 0.0
Rack Tom 2 -24db@350hz Q of 0.0 +3db@5500hz Q of 0.0
Rack Tom 3 -24db@300hz Q of 0.0 +3db@5500hz Q of 0.0
Floor Tom 1 -24db@250hz Q of 0.0 +3db@5500hz Q of 0.0
Floor Tom 2 -24db@200hz Q of 0.0 +3db@5500hz Q of 0.0

Using these settings with decent mics should get you pretty close to Andy's Tom sound. Also run a decent compressor with similar settings to your kick.

I see the need for the boost at 5500hz but there is a passge in one song I am working on that has the kick and toms running together on 16th notes and the kicks click is masking the toms.

 

[cobhc]

maybe try boosting the 5500hz a little more to around 6/8 and see?

 

[Machinated]

They look like some pretty extreme settings there, cobhc. I find when mixing toms, getting the bass right in them takes a bit of time. For me, its a balance of hi-passes, and taking out around 100Hz if need be. I will always scoop between 300Hz-700Hz on toms, and boost around 4kHz-6kHz. I think having a decent verb helps a lot in achieving a good tom sound.

 

[cobhc]

They look like some pretty extreme settings there, cobhc. I find when mixing toms, getting the bass right in them takes a bit of time. For me, its a balance of hi-passes, and taking out around 100Hz if need be. I will always scoop between 300Hz-700Hz on toms, and boost around 4kHz-6kHz. I think having a decent verb helps a lot in achieving a good tom sound.

Well sometimes I run the rbass plugin on them to bring some more low end in, I've almost nailed the toms at the start of my apocalypse using this eq, some comp, some rbass and d-verb in protools.

 

[chadsxe]

Yeah 6db seems a little drastic and is probably just masking the bigger problem. I thik I might drop out some of the click and level of the kick.

 

[cobhc]

yeah i guess you could automate the kick to sit lower in the mix during that passage

 

[Gnash]

I buss all the toms to a stereo comp while tracking. Toms are the worst, man!

 

[cobhc]

i find the kick hardest to get right during fast shit.

 

[GeertSamuel]

me and cobhc have discussed toms a lot on msn ..
we kinda use the same settings...
these settings give me a nice toms sound....so I do not doubt my own settings..
Not completely satisfied yet, so I need to do a lot of testing and on and on...

 

[AStacy2]

What do you guys' compressor settings look like on toms usually?

 

[Ermz]

The problem with compressing toms is... if you make your attack too slow and crush them too hard, you'll lose all the body and only be left with the slap.

I just experimented with parallel compressing my toms (bussed) and it gave me the biggest tom sound yet. It allowed me to do the slow attack, fast release thing on them, but use the parallel compressor to crush the living shit out of them and then push them up and have the body.

The best way to pull a good tom sound is to track them well from the start. Make sure you have plenty of nice low end, but not too much cardboard, flab sound (usually 200 to 500Hz).

 

[Ola Englund]

if you use a sample sound, the tom often have a lot of low end that make it have a hard time to fit in in the mix. But if you gate the toms hard enough so that the bastail disappears you can actually add more bass to the sound afterwards to make them sound full and loud.

Set the gate with a hold time like 40-50ms to strangle the sound. Then put release longer so the tone doesn't die out completly. Add reverb to make it sound more authentic.

Works for me every time...

 

[Kenneth R.]

I buss all the toms to a stereo comp while tracking. Toms are the worst, man!

I had this very dilemma today! Will try out all these suggestions

 

[nuclearass]

This one pro-engineer told me not to be afraid to eq the toms heavily and it really has worked for me. Boost those higher frequencies and get rid of the nasty freqs at about 200-400 hz (). I always boost the high frequencies when tracking.
other things to do:
- Clean up the tom tracks and replace bad hits with clean ones.
- Use also correctly pitch shifted samples (blended) to add more balls. Make also sure they are not in phase with the original toms.
- When using samples, use automation to make the faster fills sound more natural and use different hits.
- Toms really have often been a pain in the ass and getting them sound right has always required a lot of work for me.
- Tuning the toms well before tracking helps quite alot ;-)

 

[cobhc]

Yeah, I forgot to mention that gating the toms is also a good idea, the old sidechain trick works here, but of course, you got 10 tom tracks instead of 5 then. But it all adds up to a good sound. I've never really worked with a real drumkit, I always use DFHS, and I used to hate the toms. E.A knows about this, I really bugged the hell outta him to help me with them. But then I found those eq settings, and it really helped me, cutting out those low mids is the best thing to do to them.

I find myself getting a good tom sound out of dfhs quite easily now using the eq settings i posted above. With a good comp with like a 10ms attack and the fastest release you can, 4:1 ratio, rbass, intensity on 3, freq 45hz, then slap a nice verb on it, and see how it comes out. Always sounds nice to me, and like I said previously, I find myself getting near the toms on Doomsday Machine.


But as always, it's all down to taste, I'm trying to get near the toms on Doomsday, because I really like that sound, but at the end of the day, not everyone else does. Just fiddle with the settings posted here and see if it gets you any closer to the sound you want. And good luck!