Candlemass, Symphony X & Nevermore?
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Detective Clarence Beauregard
Dehumanized
I completely disagree, but that's cool. BH had songs of varying lengths, dynamics, etc. GO sounded flat and monotone, for the most part.
I'll never get why lenght of a song ALWAYS comes up. Its quality not lenght and I believe SX still delivered quality on PL and all the classic SX MUSICAL trademarks were still there. Epic doesnt HAVE to be long and as it was PL was a long epic CD in a entire piece of work.
Sellout is a bullshit word too, who wants to keep playing the same friggin song over and over to appease fans with terminology quirks. "Damn you, you didnt write another For Whom the Bell Tolls", 'You didnt write another Through the Looking Glass"... yeah so, what do you expect ? Frankly if they did a progressive neo classic warped rockabilly CD I'd give them alot of credit and probably enjoy it with a shit eatin grin.
Sellout is a bullshit word too, who wants to keep playing the same friggin song over and over to appease fans with terminology quirks. "Damn you, you didnt write another For Whom the Bell Tolls", 'You didnt write another Through the Looking Glass"... yeah so, what do you expect ? Frankly if they did a progressive neo classic warped rockabilly CD I'd give them alot of credit and probably enjoy it with a shit eatin grin.
Phanto
Alalalalalalalala.
Lyre's Harmony
Lunatic Soul
- Sep 14, 2009
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Prismatic Sphere
We Carouse
I don't think anyone was talking about length with reference to PL, since there is a lot of good writing on that album. There's almost a full minute of awesomeness in Domination after the solo section that doesn't technically need to be there but makes the song so much more awesome because it is. Really, they didn't have to put it in there, album might have even sold the same, but that's precisely why they aren't "just another prog/power band." They can pull stuff like that out and make it work.
And that's the thing about length. Longer does not necessarily equal better, but precisely for that reason it is a sign of talent if someone can write something that is longer AND better. Nobody wants to listen to nine minutes of random proggish noodling just for the sake of being nine minutes long of a song, but nine minutes of Revelation? It fits together, flows, and keeps your attention. And longer songs are the only way to develop some of the bigger emotional arcs, such as in the Odyssey. Champion of Ithaca just sounds different when you've listened to the whole thing through.
When you write an album full of songs 3:00-4:00 long, with the typical ABABCBB song structure, it's like high fructose corn syrup. You can put it into just about anything and make it taste sweet, which is why it's in all our foods and in all of our radio hit singles, but it will also never be anything more than just another sugary drink or just another Top-40 track. There might be good sounds and good ideas in the songs, but they'll be underdeveloped and stifled. The problem is that it takes a lot more talent and skill to see if you can actually develop them to their potential in a longer format and not ruin it.
Shorter structure also works well for things like folk music because the point is to use the music as a steady background to tell a story or highlight the voice of someone. Classical music, on the other hand, is all about expressing the ideas through the musical composition itself (that's a big generalization, since there is still a LOT of structural formality in many styles of classical), and power metal/prog needs to have varied moods and themes in the music, because otherwise it becomes the exact same thing as any pop hit single, but with distorted guitars, double bass drums and rougher vocals. Symphony X is a band of ideas, which is why I have stuck with them for so long. I have become disillusioned with plenty of other bands before, but I haven't heard a song from Symphony X yet which makes me think that the guys just slapped it together without TLC.
The Emptier
t3h b3aSt0rZ
Postulate
Have a nice day! :)
- Jul 17, 2008
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You're welcome.
Also, there is a such thing as selling out, I'm sorry. As for length, longer isn't necessarily better (one of my favorite songs is under a minute long):
But giving yourself the OPTION of using different lengths as a means of expression is good, rather than coming into every song thinking "this must be 3-4.5 minutes long" which limits you.
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Prediction: If Nevermore and SX tour together, I predict that Michael Romeo will join Nevermore on stage for one song, to play Jato Unit, which is from Jeff Loomis's solo record.
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The Emptier
t3h b3aSt0rZ
You're welcome.
Also, there is a such thing as selling out, I'm sorry. As for length, longer isn't necessarily better (one of my favorite songs is under a minute long):
But giving yourself the OPTION of using different lengths as a means of expression is good, rather than coming into every song thinking "this must be 3-4.5 minutes long" which limits you.
Yeah but who's saying they did that? It could've just ended up that way
No.
Phanto
Alalalalalalalala.
Detective Clarence Beauregard
Dehumanized
While it is no doubt technically impressive, songs like "Jato Unit" bore the hell out of me. There's no melody - it's fast and faster, with an occasional chunky riff to break it up. In fact, everything I seem to recall hearing from Loomis and Nevermore sounds like this; what can you guys recommend that doesn't?
I like my guitar solos to be extensions of a song to enhance it, not the focal point. I've grown tired of constant "mine is bigger than yours" wanking - it's the main reason I've moved away from Dream Theater.
I like my guitar solos to be extensions of a song to enhance it, not the focal point. I've grown tired of constant "mine is bigger than yours" wanking - it's the main reason I've moved away from Dream Theater.
I agree this thread went to shit fast... Like most threads lol.
Now that symphony x is signed under a new label. Anything is possible, touring with nevermore is not out of the question. I mean they did play with them during Gigantour '06. Even played baseball with them. So its not like it would be entirely out there!
Now that symphony x is signed under a new label. Anything is possible, touring with nevermore is not out of the question. I mean they did play with them during Gigantour '06. Even played baseball with them. So its not like it would be entirely out there!
That pretty much sums up what I think of the subject. Most people praise Loomis, but to me he's just one of "those shredders". I tried getting into Nevermore, and I honestly think it would be a better band without the soli.
The Emptier
t3h b3aSt0rZ
The soli? what's that.
Look beyond Jato Unit, there's a ton of awesome songs on that album with much less wanking. Although there is a fat lot of wanking in that album
but what do you expect, the new nevermore album is very toned back guitar wise
Look beyond Jato Unit, there's a ton of awesome songs on that album with much less wanking. Although there is a fat lot of wanking in that album
but what do you expect, the new nevermore album is very toned back guitar wiseThe soli? what's that.
Look beyond Jato Unit, there's a ton of awesome songs on that album with much less wanking. Although there is a fat lot of wanking in that album
Soli is a formal way to say "solos". Makes me look smarter
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