CENTURY MEDIA Sues More Than 7,000 People Over Illegal ICED EARTH, LACUNA COIL Downlo

[Skinny Viking]

^Nice spin there. You would be a good politician.

Since we are not politicians, let's be honest. Why are 1s and 0s the same price as physical cds? Meh, actually nevermind, I don't feel like derailing a thread I started. My juice is too low around here these days as it is.

you keep forgetting that cds are actually just slabs of plastic containing 1s and 0s

just because they're tangible doesn't mean that the downloadable version of the same album had any less amount of time / effort / money /creativity / inspiration put into it

lets be honest, all you're really paying extra for with the tangible version is the booklet

While I agree, I prefer to have a physical cd, doesn't mean I view the worth of a downloadable album as any less

even though, as Egan pointed out, more often than not the downloadable version of albums is generally cheaper by at least a handful of bucks

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

I will definitely agree with you that I do not understand how this market works, with "work" being a very liberal use of the term, because it doesn't really work. And I agree that people want what they want when they want for free. For sure I agree about people wanting the music immediately. But I think the "for free" part is a result of the prices being ridiculously high. When I look at amazon.com and see a CD selling for $14.99 and then below it I see the mp3 download for $9.99, I just laugh and say "what fucking moron is going to pay $9.99 for that and not get the case/inlay when they can just download for free?"

It may be too late now, but I think if the industry charged 5 cents per song they would have solid grounds to start crashing down on pirates who are too cheap to pay $1 for an album. Is that a fundamental misunderstanding? Yes, maybe.

But the fact of the matter is that this whole mess is a result of the record industry fucking up a decade ago when the Internet really took off. Instead of embracing and reaping the benefits from this innovative new medium, they tried to stick to there guns and do things the old way. Now as a result, they are suing their own fan base. I mean, come on. I have no sympathy for them.

 

[egan.]

But I think the "for free" part is a result of the prices being ridiculously high. .

See my anecdote about what happens even when bands/labels stream albums. They get ripped and distributed. It's not just money. It's not even mostly about money.

When I look at amazon.com and see a CD selling for $14.99 and then below it I see the mp3 download for $9.99, I just laugh and say "what fucking moron is going to pay $9.99 for that and not get the case/inlay when they can just download for free?"

An honest person would. I agree that I will always buy the CD when possible. It's the best quality, I get a layout and I can rip it myself.

It may be too late now, but I think if the industry charged 5 cents per song they would have solid grounds to start crashing down on pirates who are too cheap to pay $1 for an album. Is that a fundamental misunderstanding? Yes, maybe.

Check out the math in my post above. It's not financially viable.

But the fact of the matter is that this whole mess is a result of the record industry fucking up a decade ago when the Internet really took off. Instead of embracing and reaping the benefits from this innovative new medium, they tried to stick to there guns and do things the old way. Now as a result, they are suing their own fan base. I mean, come on. I have no sympathy for them.

I understand this but it's important to realize that whatever foot dragging there was, here we are 15 years later with a lot of new blood in the industry and we still don't have a truly viable replacement for the old model. Or at least not one that doesn't allow for 100:1 theft to purchase ratios.

 

[PetyaVenikov]

Hey crybaby, how about you support the bands you claim to love so much before they all have to sell their instruments to a pawn shop. Downloading albums illegally comes with a price - especially if it's those two albums - if you're caught listening to that nonsense then it's only fair you're penalized.

 

[Skinny Viking]

dufuq is this guy?

 

[Boerboel666]

If you steal something then be prepared for consequences , stroll into your local music store and steal a few hundred cd's and you will be in the shit if caught . Theft is theft online or not .

 

[J.DavisNJ]

dufuq is this guy?

It ISSS an open forum, .

Genius, I really can't sympathize with your point of view at all. We're all aware that it's theft, whether we download illegally or not, and to try to brand it with some personal grievances/opinions is foolish IMO.

Anyone who downloads illegally assumes the responsibility of getting caught, especially in 2012.

Joe

 

[Skinny Viking]

^ I'm well aware of that ... just found it funny how random guy pops in and insults someone

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Hey crybaby, how about you support the bands you claim to love so much before they all have to sell their instruments to a pawn shop. Downloading albums illegally comes with a price - especially if it's those two albums - if you're caught listening to that nonsense then it's only fair you're penalized.

dufuq is this guy?

Ya seriously who are you man? Go reread my posts and then edit your post. You sound like a fucking asshole. I support bands probably more than most of the people here. I buy ALL my music at full price, even when I don't have to.

 

[Skinny Viking]

not only that but I think he insulted the bands in question as well!

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

I can't fault you guys for not agreeing with me 100%. But I think Century Media should be spending less money on lawyers and more money on strategy consultants. They are trying to heal a gaping wound with bandaids and it's doomed to failure. Why scapegoat these kids?

 

[J.DavisNJ]

I can't fault you guys for not agreeing with me 100%. But I think Century Media should be spending less money on lawyers and more money on strategy consultants. They are trying to heal a gaping wound with bandaids and it's doomed to failure. Why scapegoat these kids?

They are setting an example, as they should. They are running a business afterall. It might not be the ideal way of handling it but it will surely send a message.

 

[PetyaVenikov]

'Ey Luca Brasi, whaidoncha shutyo fat mouf.

You're not doing anyone a favor by buying their music. It's a community of people, that people generally and sincerely support; it's not an obligation, it's what you choose to do on your own accord same as shamelessly downloading music; as everyone else on this thread said - get caught, assume the consequences.

People still listen to Lacuna Coil though? daaaamn.

 

[DanLights]

'Ey Luca Brasi, whaidoncha shutyo fat mouf.

You're not doing anyone a favor by buying their music. It's a community of people, that people generally and sincerely support; it's not an obligation, it's what you choose to do on your own accord same as shamelessly downloading music; as everyone else on this thread said - get caught, assume the consequences.

People still listen to Lacuna Coil though? daaaamn.

wut? This guy's all over the place

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

^Petya, you miss the short bus to school this morning?

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Actions having consequences is not a problem. The real problem is the extent of the consequences.

Someone compared illegal downloading to going to a record store and stealing CD's. Even though it's a horrible analogy, it actually serves as a great example of the consequences. Imagine a kid getting caught with a backpack full of CD's. Everyone's seen High Fidelity, right? If you haven't, go see it now and stop wasting time browsing stupid shit on Internet. Anyway, what do you reckon are the charges the kid faces? $250.000 or up to five years in jail? Yeah, sure. In reality, he a) gets slapped in the face b) pays a minimal fine and if he's really lucky, not even getting a mark on his record. So please, stop comparing illegal downloading to stealing physical albums from a store. It's a crap analogy in every form and you know it.

Someone also mentioned the general attitude towards pirated software on this forum. We all know an engineer or two who uses cracked plugins. How would you compare a kid who illegally downloads fifty albums to an engineer who produces fifty albums with thousands worth of cracked plugins? What do you think is a proper penalty to such an engineer? And more importantly, where are the people who'd sue these little fucks who are the real reason a metric shit-ton of small and medium level engineers are losing money each and every day?

Please, put it in perspective. Ruining a stupid kids life - at least financially - for being a stupid, ignorant little brat is not fair. I recently lost my driver's license temporarily for speeding. I drove a potentially dangerous speed, possibly risking not only myself but other, innocent people (even though the road was clear of traffic) and guess how much I have to pay? 528€. What makes the pirating kiddie more of a scumbag than me?

And for what it's worth, I buy all of my music. In physical form. I refuse paying for digital download albums (I don't pirate them, either). The only time I actually bought a download album was with Feared's first release, and that's purely because I'm gay for Ola.

 

[egan.]

Jarkko, you make some good points but there are a couple of things I want to address.
I think your point about the analogy is fair but one key element is that in the CD theft scenario you are dealing with criminal prosecution and in the piracy situation you are generally dealing with civil litigation. The reason why that distinction is so important is that it takes punishments like community service or other more rational penalties of the table. It also means that the plaintiff has to hire lawyers (and forensic IT folks) and has to pursue enough money to pay everyone involved. If the government could realistically go after individual users I think the penalties would be more grounded and less punitive. That said, the vast majority of these letters ask for several thousand dollars and are aimed at big sharers (rather than d/l'ers). I also think it's presumptive to assume these are children and not grown men and women being targeted.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Jarkko I think I agree with you 100% for the first time.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Jarkko, you make some good points but there are a couple of things I want to address.
I think your point about the analogy is fair but one key element is that in the CD theft scenario you are dealing with criminal prosecution and in the piracy situation you are generally dealing with civil litigation. The reason why that distinction is so important is that it takes punishments like community service or other more rational penalties of the table. It also means that the plaintiff has to hire lawyers (and forensic IT folks) and has to pursue enough money to pay everyone involved. If the government could realistically go after individual users I think the penalties would be more grounded and less punitive.

Very true. Still, making an example of someone is far from just getting even. Even though I'm very familiar with the way the average price of a CD is shared amongst all the individuals associated in the process, I won't even try going into the math side of things. However, there have been several rather exact calculations of the true losses and compensations in the cases that have gained publicity, and shit, those numbers just won't add up.

I'm all for supporting the business (obviously, since I got my livelihood from it), but it's a rotten way of dealing with the issue all the same :/

That said, the vast majority of these letters ask for several thousand dollars and are aimed at big sharers (rather than d/l'ers). I also think it's presumptive to assume these are children and not grown men and women being targeted.

That assumption was based on the cases that have been in the papers and news I have seen. Seems like it's always a young dude too dumb or naive for his own good.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Jarkko I think I agree with you 100% for the first time.

For the first time? Damn, I'm right 99% of the time, and when I'm not, I do it on purpose to mislead and cause general bewilderment.