Complete songwriting - what songs pass the test of 'listening all the way through'?

[Benny H]

I ask this because I have roughly a bazillion pieces of music written that are 'unfinished'? half songs, basically.
The basic justification I would say for not just getting it done each time, is that I don't want to be enclosed or contained in any generic structure from the start (all the fun for me is in that open ended creative feeling)...BUT... I have yet to come up with my OWN greater idea, or vision or 'theory' of the complete picture.
The 'song writes itself' school is fine, and I'm pretty much in that arena, but a song with a life of it's own is not gonna end itself is it? at least it's not in my interaction with it. It's a show off.. "look what I can do! I can do this I can do that! I can go here there and anywhere!!" I egg it on of course. Maybe it WOULD reveal how to resolve itself if I focus more on listening for that.
But it really stops being fun as soon as I start even critiquing the thing as to where it's going and 'what it all means' so to speak. So yeah I'm pretty determined to release that clutch on my overall process..

Anyway, feel free to speak on any thoughts and feelings that might stir, but if you're here I did lull you in with a question -

For me, I think of
Meshuggah - DEI and Chaosphere having a lot of songs that absorb me all the way to the end of each song, and I haven't drifted off at all along the way. 'Beneath', 'Soul Burn', 'Transfixion' and 'FBM' of course.
Fear Factory - Demanufacture has some tracks that are intense on a whole. Basically the whole album but with some blatant exceptions.
Metallica - ..justice ...I don't know if this sort of music would have the same effect if it was new today, but that album more than any other 'tallica is just wrapped around my brain... every second of it.

And the interesting question to me is, what is it? I can come with plenty of examples but I can't say I can put my finger on what makes up that quality. And I actually start to think 'that shouldn't work' when I start to break things down... I hear things I would probably avoid doing myself.

I'd say this overall question is an even more pointed topic among you lot, being those who must have to listen over and over to stuff that you may not particularly enjoy musically.

 

[Leon--]

first of all i believe the goal is to create a song that makes you feel complete.this is the ultimate task.
For people that will hear the song and those who will try to analyse it in detail,they must find a reason for every riff,every tempo change,every specific detail in general,the composer must not provide only cool riffs,but an actual reason for the process and the connection.
since you have plenty of riffs but they are not completed songs,means that you need to create a critical philosophy in order to connect them and please yourself.
read some books about composition,there are tons of easy books that expand your ideas instead of limiting your thought.
Preproductions also help.
Some metal albums that i admire for their composition:
Emperor:anthems
septicflesh:the great mass
dissection:storms of the lights bane
Nile-In Their Darkened Shrines
Marduk-plagueangel(the album has a great flow).Nightwing
Dark funeral-diabolis interium
Morbid angel-Covenant
Immolation-close to a world below
Type o negative-october rust/world coming down
plus many more
cheers

 

[Benny H]

Appreciate your response Leon.

This is it exactly - "you need to create a critical philosophy in order to connect them and please yourself"
I would actually say I DO have this complete ideal in an intuitive/feeling way (it's true for everyone really - a sort of inner reference where you 'vibe' with something or you don't), but not developed much at all intellectually to the point of a whole vision in detail.
So the only guidance it gives at any point is 'yes' or 'no'... and a few 'no's' in a row makes not much fun pretty quick.

Another album for me is The Faceless - Planetary Duality is pretty seamless and aaaallmost flawless at staying interesting.

 

[aramism]

for me its hardly metal. it has its own structure btu from a spurely songwriting standpoint its mostly rock and pop...

foo fighters are a great example of great songwriting. simple, to the point, well structured, great melodies, great rhythmic interaction great lyrics. also there's a great balance of dynamics in the music.


fleetwood mac. great great songwriting. great usage of melodies and harmonies as textures.

early mariah carey songs written by walter afanasieff. amazing.




in metal, i think gojira has great songs and i really like what machine did lamb of god on sacrament. and of course, metallica in the 80s.

 

[AudioPhile777]

If the music doesn't tell a story/evoke and emotion, its shit. Bottom line.

Finish the songs. If its a shitty song, finished or unfinished, its a shitty song. Song structure won't change that.

 

[Benny H]

If the music doesn't tell a story/evoke and emotion, its shit. Bottom line.

Finish the songs. If its a shitty song, finished or unfinished, its a shitty song. Song structure won't change that.

Ok. I'm hearing ya and I like it.
You state the negative side of it, but if this is truth then the flip side of it does apply. Or does it? I mean if you have a seemingly incomplete package of certified awesomeness, what you do beyond that doesn't tarnish it. But you can still end up with an average song with a sick section..? If you have a mind blowing fuck but then the bitch steals all your money, or even is just an annoying cunt.. it was still an awesome fuck, but.. not a perfect experience overall.

This approach is probably the most productive for sure.

 

[Mago]

For me a song isn't finished until it feels right for me.
Wether it turned out as I "planned" or thought about at the beginning of the writing process doesn't matter.
Can be that it pretty much ends itself, or I find a cool ending by accident, or I allready have it in mind when starting to write yadayadayada

"Avarage song with sick section"?
Never worked for me, always always ended up hating these kind of songs. They don't feel right.
Find another sick section that fits and completes the other sick section and you're allready halfway done with a sick song

Well structured/building up songs the same vs journey experience/random cuting and pasting of sections
not easy to find balance in that imo too haha