Songwriting (How Do?)

[digitalmikey]

There have been a few topics in the past similar to this but I wanted to start a topic were we can delve deeper in to how we all approach writing songs. I'm sure most of us will say we start with a "riff" but how does your songwriting continue after that riff?

What formula do you tend to use the most? (verse, chorus, etc.)

How do you approach transitions in to other riffs?

Do you envision the full picture of the song or write in the moment?

Theory or no theory?

Where do you find yourself drawing inspirations from?

A lot of us hobbyist engineer's are guitarists/songwriters first. I just figured it would be nice to hear everyone's take on writing some of the bad ass tunes found on this great forum. Let's shoot the shit.

 

[Nebulous]

Agreeed. Also, for those like myself to have each part sounding "right" with at least guitars and drums, how do you go about putting those two elements together?
Work closely with a drummer, EZD/ DKFH/ etc?

I find that usually it's the part where I try to get the drums right that frustrates me and I either get a crap result in the end or I give up in frustration.
I need a drum kit to just play it, or have a drummer on call.

 

[Damian B]

I'm a drummer, but I always tended to be the "arranger" in my old band. The two guitarists would bring in riffs which I would listen to and the assemble into songs. I like well-written, well-structured songs, but sometimes a long epic song with no repeated sections is cool too. When I write stuff on my own I generally compose keyboard parts and then program some scratch drums, and then my brother will improv guitar parts until we're happy with what we've recorded. I really like songwriting with a DAW because of the visual aspect, which helps me keep things organized.

 

[joshwheelermusic]

Some of the best arrangements one can do include dynamic variation. Make the loud parts louder by making the soft parts softer, and vice versa.

 

[drew_drummer]

Hmm. Well, when I write entire songs on my own... I usually jump from bass, to guitar, to drums, to bass, to drums, to guitar... etc...

I don't write everything on one instrument, and then do the next one. I sort of modularly put it all together; one part on guitar will inspire a part on bass, which will inspire the drums; I'll come up with a drumbeat that sort of goes with the original riff.. but not quite. I'll then write a new guitar part for that drum part... ad infinitum.

Its just playing around really; you can't really think too much about it. Which is why it is important to ignore your tone, ignore your looseness... just write. Work on the perfection of the ideas at the end.

And.. STRUCTURE STRUCTURE STRUCTURE! Don't just jam along for eight hours to a drumloop and expect to get a song out of it. Not gonna happen!

 

[Erkan]

Since I'm mainly a drummer when it comes to instruments, I usually have no problems coming up with drums for my riffs and various parts. I use the guitar for the actual songwriting and then I quickly program some drums to get a feel of the song. I usually lay down a scratch-scratch guitar which I use only to program the drums to. Then I re-record the guitars so they're decent scratch guitars, and finally record it for real after I have recorded real drums. It might seem like a hassle but it's actually quite quick for me to work this way.

Anyway, so I sometimes program drums first if I already know how they should play. Most often it's the guitar that decides everything though so I program the drums after the guitars. I love the guitar as a songwriting instrument because you can play it as a rhythm instrument and a melodic instrument, it's just the ultimate instrument for songwriting. I can't write any song on a keyboard for example, neither would I be able to write a song on a bass guitar. Guitar is like a combination of keyboard and bass... just lovely

Man, I'm kind of tired right now, I'll see if I edit this post later with some more details about the way I write stuff. It's always good/fun to read stuff like this.

 

[mts1979]

For me, this usually happens one of two ways:

1. Dick around on guitar until i come up with a cool riff. I usually jam along with a drum machine, because it's easier for me to write with some kind of rhythmic foundation going on. If I stumble upon something decent, I'll try and expand on it a bit with other parts/transitions/variations. I'll usually record a really sloppy scratch guitar track or two, just to document my ideas, and then revisit it later when the ideas have had a chance to work themselves out in my head a bit. I tend to re-track guitars so they suck less, and I'll program drums and maybe add bass and/or vocals, then show what I've got to the rest of my band.

---OR---

2. A good idea suddenly appears. Maybe a really catchy chorus will pop in your head while you're looking for a parking spot. Or a line in a book you just read has stuck with you. Maybe a really insane riff will come to you while you're taking a poop. When this happens, i'll grab a guitar, record a rough version of whatever I've just thought of, and then expand on it kind of like in #1 above.

I think if you've got one badass riff, and a solid chorus, you can get away with almost anything in the rest of the song.

 

[diSEMBOWELMENT]

For us (Capricious Alchemy), it's either we bring various riffs and we arrange them together, or work on seperate songs each. In my case, I start off by defining my scale of progression, then move on to my beloved piano or synth, strum a couple of chords here and there, get a rough idea on where I'm heading (reading the song's lyrics in advance would be helpful too!) then grab my guitar and start playing what I imagine would work while either recording the session or just tabbing it straight away.

After the basic riffs have been visualized (mind you, I personally don't like the songs too structured, and rarely go back to the same riffs) I start building and layering orchestration on it. Which would take the most amount of time.

 

[Chryst Krispies]

I basically follow the classic eighties formula

Intro, Verse, (Prechorus?) Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Solo, Bridge (shenanigans go here) Double Chorus, Outro (possible Lynch style solo).

Sometimes I'll spice it up, and won't do any of that.

Usually it'll come together on the quick once the chorus riff is solid. I don't tab anything out, my brother does that. One person will record all the stringed shit, Most of the time one person does a full song as well. Too many cooks spoil the froth.

I won't lie sometimes I'll listen to a hit song and just steal their formula and fix it up with metal riffs. Hasn't backfired yet. Hha ha.

For solo shit, I usually improv. 90% of the solos I've recorded were done in 1 or 2 takes. once the idea is down, I'll "learn " it and then record it for real to get the various shit parts fixed. I've left some mistakes in in the past though. I like the raw I don't give a fuck attitude. Marcus knows what I'm talking about cause he always points those parts out to me hahaha. I'll leave in a note that was fretted weird, string noise etc. I KEEPS IT REAL LIEK DAT.

 

[Cacoph0ny]

As far as song structure I just go with what feels right. I'm honestly pretty bored of the standard formulas most bands use so my music not too often repeats itself. Although that doesn't work with all types of music obviously.

I like bands that have songs that flow, ala ISIS and Rosetta.

 

[STINNETT]

I haven't written a song in several years. I used to know how to do it pretty well, but then I forgot. I started to think about it too much, and now I think about it not enough.

Now when I sit around and noodle around with riffs (a rarity) I never think to make a song out of them, I just think to myself, "you know, if I had a song to put that in, it would be pretty awesome..."

I do miss writing songs.

 

[Jevil]

I usually start with a riff, melody, idea.

I record it, do a simple drum beat for it, copy paste that beat, and practice over it until I have a scratch, the vox melody line i play it like lead guitars so I don't forget it Then I like to include many double guitar leads, synths, and improved drums until i have the finsal song. Then come the lyrics.

I write classic and powerish stuff so intro - verse - bridge - chorus - verse - bridge - chorus - solo and guitar harmonies - bridge - chorus is the common structur, even though it can variate.

 

[muckypup1]

I have been really struggling to get anything written recently because I just can't make good enough drum tracks for my stuff. I'm no drummer and just don't know how to create good fills and groove metal style parts, this is getting me in rages all the time when I try to write stuff!

 

[Erkan]

I have been really struggling to get anything written recently because I just can't make good enough drum tracks for my stuff. I'm no drummer and just don't know how to create good fills and groove metal style parts, this is getting me in rages all the time when I try to write stuff!

Just listen to your favorite bands and analyze the shit out of their drum patterns Drums are cool in the way that you can totally rip a drum pattern right off and write your own riff to it and nothing would happen. It's harder to sue someone for using the same "rhythm" as another one, it's like... me sueing you for breathing up my air. Melodies and shit are obviously not good to rip right off though, even though some idiots go for it.

 

[jagarock]

having a hard time writing songs.. i used to be pretty good at it, and structuring and all that, but now after a few years break, im a total noob and dont even know where to start.
well, im always starting with a riff or a melody. but going from there to a song, no, not in ages.

 

[TravisW]

I generally start with a riff idea, then try to string a few together. I guess I tend to do an intro riff, verse riff, prechorus, chorus, and some sort of middle section. I vary on that, too. One thing that I'm dogmatic about is having enough modulation within the song. In metal, it's too easy to just try and BRING TEH BR00TUL and wind up with a monotonous (literally) piece of crap.

So, I basically write the whole thing on guitar, add some bass, and start rearranging it immediately. I get a rough arrangement and bring it to the band. After we learn it and run through it a couple of times, we start fine-tuning the arrangement. On our latest tune, which we first hashed out on Friday night, the rhythm of the song shifted pretty significantly from what I had imagined, but the energy improved quite a bit. I figure our drummer has been playing for almost 30 years, so I might as well lean on his expertise. Actually, everybody gets input at the arrangement stage, and we'll try anything once to see how it works. Once we have it down to one or two different arrangements, we do a really rough rehearsal recording and compare. Then, we can hear which one has better energy overall and that winds up being the final arrangement.

Then, about 2 days before we have to play it at a gig or record, I actually get around to writing the lyrics.

 

[ahjteam]

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/songsmith/

 

[GarethSE]

my writing process involves getting very very stoned, going into a room with a friend, turning our amps up loud and proceeding to make horrible, horrible noises for 80 minutes or so.

 

[cloy26]

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/songsmith/

The only logical post.

 

[NicholasDWolfwood]

Guitarpro is where a lot of the notation takes place, as I and the guitar player/vocalist live on opposite sides of the world (him in NZ, me eastern US). Generally we'll jam on our guitars for awhile, notate the riffs we come up with (along with basic drum parts), then put them on our Live Mesh. Then we'll sit down and look at each others' riffs, change things/tweak things/add more riffs. Once the basic structure is done, we'll write the drums/bass/leads/synths/whatever.

For example, I'm working on a song right now. I have about 80-90 bars of it written and notated already, then when he looks at it he'll probably add some riffing, or change some of mine, or add drum parts, or whatever.