Concept for Dance of December Souls?

Varg-

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Sep 1, 2003
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One of their best albums IMO, even though it's not really tight or well produced...

I've studied the lyrics for this one, as well as the others... Find it very interesting, especially because of their age, and how much it differs compared to the others. And I really like romantic texts as well, and this is well done. And when I mean romantic I don't mean like love, but in it's true form; the beauty of nature.

So, ladies and gentlemen... have any opinions about a concept about these lyrics, or some ideas? Every constructive thought is wellcome! Destructive opinions like "No, man, there's no concept, get the fuck off the forum" etc is not wellcome. I knot that there's loads of nice, smart and deep-thinking guys out there... Come here and discuss with me.

I will wait with my opinions :)
 
according to your theory about concept, I wouldn't call it a concept= every song build a story. There 's only a unity made by common themes, some clichès typical of the doom/goth/funeral metal genre, most related to death, bereavement, decadence,a little bit of atheism/satanism, although some lyrics express beautiful images ("storms of dawn"for example), quite impressive considering how young Jonas was when he wrote this stuff.

In any case every Kata album is kind of a concept, from the title you immediately get the overall atmosphere.
 
I know that every song has it's own plot, but together there could be some kind of red line which is really interesting.
Jonas is a VERY good and advanced poet. You'll never know what he might have planned... now please, no more destructive opinions about concept or not...
 
i dont find what ether posted to be very destructive actually.
ah well, anyway, i quite agree with ether, and of course theres a red line, but when i listen to the music im quite pleased with enjoying what i hear. i dont really find any meaning in finding these "concepts", see, i guess i already have the concepts inside my head. thats what gives me different feelings listening to different katatonia-records. and comparing katatonia to opeth is the same thing, opeth gives me a totally different feel, and i get that without sitting down and studying the lyrics.
 
The different thing is that Micke Åkerfeldt isn't HALF as good poet as Jonas Renkse is...
And if you don't like finding concepts, then please stop disturbing my threads! :(
Damn.... I want people who's interesting in the lyrics to discuss with me, not ruin my threads....
 
haven't think about a concept in DoDS so far. i can agree with Varg about the red line, even though this is characteristic of every Katatonia album in a way. i don't think someone can re-cover this story truthful. Jonas' early poetry works are hard to explain and it's hard to reach thе real very deep of it. the confusion with growing up, some romantic doom/death/desperation elements and the fact that Jonas is a personality-charade, make the whole album too complex to find out (only one if you want) a steady concept.
 
sorry m8 ;)

oh and btw Varg-, just wanted you to know that i totally agree with you when you wrote you dont want "fjortisar" and such people to listen to katatonia.
 
Nice everybody...

We all know that the theme is "death" on the album, like many other katatonia-albums. But here the concept also is death, the process of dying.

Something that is clear is that after the instrumental, elohim meth, something happens. With some imagination, that may be the moment of death, that's why they enterrupt the album in the middle. From Velvet thorns, he describes his way to some kind of hell (on a very beautiful road :)), a blackmetal hell. Blackmetal usually describes hell as "into the coldest place of all", where he is wandering, into a colder and colder place... "to the purest of winters", "where no angels ever dare to tread" etc. (I'm not gonna explain the whole lyrics, you've got to read this on your own to get it).
And in the end of velvet thorns he says "I can fly" wherupon the others song starts with "falling, crying sleeping..". As he wandered to his fate in velvet thorns, he found his fate in "tomb of insomnia". For those who don't understand Swedish, I can let you know that "Insomna" means "to fall asleep". Insomnia is a little nice nickname.
Just like in "inside the city of glass" he describes the eternity of death in "Dancing december", and the only words are "dancing, dancing dancing" which I think means that he's falling forever, just like in the tombs of insomnia...

The reason to why I started from "elohim meth" is that the songs before are very difficult to tell something concrete about. A theory(theory #1) has allways been that in the first song, the chaos-song, he get's some kind of message or something. Anyway, I don't think he dies of a disease. He comitts suicide, because he never could reach his bride, and his life is a misary. Gateways Of Bereavement is the worst one, totally depressed... In the next song he's sleeping, taken some kind of drug maybe, however he's dreaming about crazy things like black roses whisper "our death is eternal", about his bride etc. the most depressing things.
In "without god" he thinks about a very natural thing for a dying person; if god exists or not. And if you that didn't know, "jhva elohim meth" only means "god god god". Got a bit disappointed when I found that out actually ;)
However, that's theyory #1. He's alive until "elohim meth", from there he's wandering through death...

But many things speaks against that, if you wanna belive in something, you got to spare some imagination, especially about poetry which never is concrete or easy.

In theory #2, to make it simple, he dies in the chaos-song, seven dreaming souls. In this theory he's "dead but dreaming" in the first two lyric-songs (I don't have to explain it again, do I?), until he arrives to god in "without god" where god says
"I am God creator of Life
I am God Enchanter of Death
Death - that now marks you
Life - that slowly pass away"

Whereupon he sends him to hell, and "elohim meth" starts.. and he's on his way, as I describes above.

Theory #2 is more likely, but theory #1 is better, if it holds... more depressing.

I hope you understand what my points are. Sorry for describing bad :( But I just woke up and couldn't wait. However, off to the shower! Gimmie some comments.
There must be some kind of concept IMO, even if it isn't so deep or complicated.
 
Deliverance6 said:
interesting. I have investigated the VE theory and can definately see Vargs point. I will also investigate more into DODS. Thanx for making me think outside myself again Varg. :)

Nice :)
I'm happy to see ppl interested!


Erik.... Okay, well... nobody has any proof. I only know that "insomna" on Swedish means "to fall asleep" :)
 
Varg,
Happy birthday bro. I didnt think it would be appropriate to start a thread about your birthday, but I still wanted to let you know that I have done my homework. Hope this is a good day for you. Keep up the enthusiasm for my favorite subject. As Anders would say, CHEERZ.
 
Well, I think it's redundant to evidently prove that the lyrical theme on dods is Suicide and its consequences. The lyrics are not so concentrated on the roots and reasons for such a brave deed (as for instance, greately does the following album - bmd), but on the Process of Dying: the pictures and visions the person sees, his feelings and sensations.

As I see, great importance is given to Occultism, because it's really the basis of the lyrics. Jonas was greatly influenced by all those hyperborean (if you know what it is, for I am not very good at mythology) ideas - and he mainly built the central theme of Dying and Penetrating the Other World on them (remember all those 'dreaming souls', 'evil shadows moving towards the skies', 'death slowly coming to take me away', 'gateways of bereavement' stuff).

But surely he invented every single event deeply relying on his own understanding and thoughts. I feel that he wanted to create some kind of the (Unearthly) World of Utopian - Dying - Beauty. He just tried to imagine - colorfully and talentfully - to what worlds will suicide bring a man? Maybe, the lyrics are not so deep and mature, but they are the most beautiful, poetical and diverse throughout his career (but of course in some certain point of view).

And if you still don't know, he is quite negative to his early lyrics nowadays, saying that they with Blackheim were really very young and influenced by some popular underground tendencies of that time (that concerns all that satanic stuff, and Without God lyrics, which are really in my opinion not suitable for the album). He thinks those lyrics were not very deep.

But still they are fantastically imaginative! I've never read such a brilliant concept of Living on the Edge of Life (that's what I think about the dods concept) - with the creation of peculiar and memorable images of Death and Utopian Nature. Bravo, Jonas!

p.s. I wrote much about it on my site, you may take a look if you have any desire.
 
First of all, the hebrew language doesn't write in that order.
If it would mean what you say, it would be written this way:
"Is god dead"
that is:
"Elohim jhva meth"

Because we all know that jhva means god, right?

Secondly, I checked it out on a hebreic lexicon. It's different meanings of god:
Jhva = God
Elohim = the supreme God, the judge, allmighty
Meth = God, like the truth, the faith etc. More formal. Here's an example:
"Ybemeth" means your brothers wife, therefor your "sister in law", more specificly; your sister between god and you. "Ybe" is some kind of feminine participle.

Don't belive everything you hear guys...
I know it would be cooler if it actually meant "god is dead", but it doesn't. It does only mean "god god god".

And hey zero....sorry man :)

knowledge is power ;)
 
Varg- said:
As he wandered to his fate in velvet thorns, he found his fate in "tomb of insomnia". For those who don't understand Swedish, I can let you know that "Insomna" means "to fall asleep". Insomnia is a little nice nickname.
Just like in "inside the city of glass" he describes the eternity of death in "Dancing december", and the only words are "dancing, dancing dancing" which I think means that he's falling forever, just like in the tombs of insomnia...

Insomnia is a quite comon word for simple metal-lyrics, and means inability to sleep.

lack of knowledge is weakness ;)
 
Bah! I didn't say that "insomnia" definatlay mean "to fall asleep". I just said that "insomna" on Swedish means "to fall asleep" and that's a little coincidense because Jonas Renkse is a Swede... but you may be right.

And please.... stop whining sometime damnit and discuss the interesting parts! To whine about shit is lack of intelligence....