Confused about vocal sends, aux's etc.

[JayB]

Ok so after watching a good amount of YouTube vids and reading threads here I feel like I'm doing something wrong in regards to sends and aux's. Mainly with vocals. For instance, in a current mix I have all the scream vocal tracks being routed to an aux, which has all the effects, compression, saturation, limiting, etc. I then have that being sent to another aux with delay and reverb. Same with cleans, but that has its own separate aux, obviously. However, I've been watching quite a few videos where people have, for instance, an instance of compression on each track, and maybe EQ too, then there's a send for reverb, delay, etc. I use a similar method for my snare and toms, so I can blend the unaffected snare with the verb snare, etc. Should I be doing this with vocals too? Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[JayB]

For instance should I be setting my vocals up like this guy has them?

 

[bryan_kilco]

I'll go ahead and say - whatever sounds good, is good!

But I'm still diving into sends/receives/aux stuff and I'm still a bit confused by some of it.

It finally clicked in my head that, routing certain groups or tracks to a bus can yield an awesome array of results that I was not aware of before.....since you ultimately can get the clean/un-affected signal along with a wet signal. Sorry if this post isn't of much help, but I'm interested in this topic as well.

 

[Tommy Evans]

Doubt there is a way you "should" be doing anything. But if it helps you out, I have comps and eqs on each vox track. then route those to a aux that has delay and limiter on it. (i dont use verb on vox)

 

[xx|fiend|xx]

I agree, you have to do what just sounds good. For me, I mainly compress on the track, then "Aux send" the vocals to a bus with Eq and a De-Esser. Then I'll "route" that bus to 2nd bus going through some slight verb and delays (100% wet) and only use that completely wet 2nd bus for mixing in with the original source. If that makes sense....For me the 100% wet signal really has no need in have extra compression as it'll be low in volume and mixed in with the main original vox's....

 

[JayB]

Ok cool, thanks for the responses guys!

 

[crillemannen]

I always compress the vocal track and put a desser on it. Then i send ALL vocal tracks to a bus. On the bus i put eq, multiband compressors and sends such as reverb,doubbler and delay.

For gang vocals and backing vocals/harmonies (which i always record in stereo=2takes) i usually treat them as one and just compress on the stereo buss.

 

[JayB]

I always compress the vocal track and put a desser on it. Then i send ALL vocal tracks to a bus. On the bus i put eq, multiband compressors and sends such as reverb,doubbler and delay.

For gang vocals and backing vocals/harmonies (which i always record in stereo=2takes) i usually treat them as one and just compress on the stereo buss.

Thanks man, this post helps a lot!

 

[JayB]

I always compress the vocal track and put a desser on it. Then i send ALL vocal tracks to a bus. On the bus i put eq, multiband compressors and sends such as reverb,doubbler and delay.

For gang vocals and backing vocals/harmonies (which i always record in stereo=2takes) i usually treat them as one and just compress on the stereo buss.

By the way, are you putting just one instance of compression on each track? I usually do gain staging with at least two compressors. Also, what multiband compressor are you using on the bus?

 

[crillemannen]

By the way, are you putting just one instance of compression on each track? I usually do gain staging with at least two compressors. Also, what multiband compressor are you using on the bus?

Well these days i use my hardware comps, both my 1176 and my ssl compressor, so yes, i use gain staging

I usually use waves L1 limiter --> 1176--> waves L1 again --> SSL --> Waves c4 and some eq.

If i where to use plugins i probably use a the L1 --> a 1176 plugin like waves or ik multimedias.

Some times i also use two c4 if one isn't enough.

 

[JayB]

Well these days i use my hardware comps, both my 1176 and my ssl compressor, so yes, i use gain staging

I usually use waves L1 limiter --> 1176--> waves L1 again --> SSL --> Waves c4 and some eq.

If i where to use plugins i probably use a the L1 --> a 1176 plugin like waves or ik multimedias.

Some times i also use two c4 if one isn't enough.

Cool, thanks again for the tips! The only other thing I have to ask, is what kind of reverbs and delays do you use? My problem is my vocals either sound too dry or drowned in effects. By the way, checked out your Studio Haga page, great mixes man!

 

[crillemannen]

Cool, thanks again for the tips! The only other thing I have to ask, is what kind of reverbs and delays do you use? My problem is my vocals either sound too dry or drowned in effects. By the way, checked out your Studio Haga page, great mixes man!

Thanks man!!!

Well i use waves delay or Pt's air delay, waves doubler and lexicon native reverbs. It is usually about making a balanced mix to give room for the vocals. Vocals are usually really easy to mix, atleast for me these days. I usually use the a preset call basic doubbler, to make the vocals wider, the delay helps allot to. Usually set it on 8ths. I posted some isolated tracks from the start a fire mix a while ago. Here you have the vocals:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12967127/fire_vox.mp3

A great trick is to do 2takes on the lead vocals, even on clean vocals and instead of setting one vocal slightly lower then the other. You set them at equal level and pan them slightly 10-20. But that means that you usually have to vocalign them or time stretch a word or two and tune them so they sound as one take. I did it on the clean vocals on that clip.

A quality microphone helps allot, so you don't get any strange frequency boosts. I usually just cut 2dbs in the mids, clear up the highbass with 1db or so and my vocals are done. The hardware really makes the vocals smooth without taking treble off, and even out the dynamics in a way that is hard to reproduce with a plugin. You know it just makes them sound pro

So if you got the cash buy a 1176 hardware clone, it will improve your vocals bigtime.

Cheers

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

I always compress the vocal track and put a desser on it. Then i send ALL vocal tracks to a bus. On the bus i put eq, multiband compressors and sends such as reverb,doubbler and delay.

For gang vocals and backing vocals/harmonies (which i always record in stereo=2takes) i usually treat them as one and just compress on the stereo buss.

Are you sending harmonies to the same buss? Because when more harmonies come into play, and that could mean more than 4 tracks sometimes, wouldn't that work the compressor quite hard and just duck all of the vocals

 

[JayB]

Thanks man!!!

Well i use waves delay or Pt's air delay, waves doubler and lexicon native reverbs. It is usually about making a balanced mix to give room for the vocals. Vocals are usually really easy to mix, atleast for me these days. I usually use the a preset call basic doubbler, to make the vocals wider, the delay helps allot to. Usually set it on 8ths. I posted some isolated tracks from the start a fire mix a while ago. Here you have the vocals:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12967127/fire_vox.mp3

A great trick is to do 2takes on the lead vocals, even on clean vocals and instead of setting one vocal slightly lower then the other. You set them at equal level and pan them slightly 10-20. But that means that you usually have to vocalign them or time stretch a word or two and tune them so they sound as one take. I did it on the clean vocals on that clip.

A quality microphone helps allot, so you don't get any strange frequency boosts. I usually just cut 2dbs in the mids, clear up the highbass with 1db or so and my vocals are done. The hardware really makes the vocals smooth without taking treble off, and even out the dynamics in a way that is hard to reproduce with a plugin. You know it just makes them sound pro

So if you got the cash buy a 1176 hardware clone, it will improve your vocals bigtime.

Cheers

Cool, I was actually messing around with two takes of lead vox, I thought it made them sound thicker but I wasn't sure if people did that in the same way they do with doubling screams etc. I'll try the panning trick. My scream vocals are sounding good in the mix, I'm just working on getting the cleans to do the same. I think your tips will help and yeah, I'll definitely look into getting some hardware as soon as I start doing this for money, which will hopefully be soon, haha.

 

[crillemannen]

Are you sending harmonies to the same buss? Because when more harmonies come into play, and that could mean more than 4 tracks sometimes, wouldn't that work the compressor quite hard and just duck all of the vocals

Well these days i usually print those tracks via my hardware comps. It takes some time to do it but it always sound better.

But IF you have a certain phrase or gang vocals with the same amount of tracks then it shouldn't be a problem using the compressor on the buss instead of the isolated track. But it is all about making it work in the mix, sometimes i do it the other way around haha. And i usually abusing the waves c4, stage-compressing on gang vocals. It is the best compressor to even out a source.

 

[JayB]

Also crillemannen, I'm a bit confused when you say you would use l1 limiter, then compression? Don't you normally put limiter last in chain?

 

[mstone564]

Whatever amount of vocal tracks you have going to a bus or aux, ect. make sure you put a compressor on EVERY vocal track along with one (or limiter) on the bus so none of the vocals duck from overlapping sections.

 

[JayB]

Whatever amount of vocal tracks you have going to a bus or aux, ect. make sure you put a compressor on EVERY vocal track along with one (or limiter) on the bus so none of the vocals duck from overlapping sections.

Yeah I tried this out after crillemannen said that's what he does, and it really made a difference.

 

[JayB]

Whatever amount of vocal tracks you have going to a bus or aux, ect. make sure you put a compressor on EVERY vocal track along with one (or limiter) on the bus so none of the vocals duck from overlapping sections.

By the way , checked out your Awakening The Revenant band, sick stuff! Just curious, did you use Slate for the drums, and if so, do you remember which ones?

 

[amarshism]

Bussing vocals to more compression only tends to be a problem when you have overlapping lines as the tail of the last line will duck the beginning of the new one