Creating a live monitoring rig

[GeertSamuel]

Since our singer suffered hearing damage with another band he plays in we decided to take a look at our monitoring options. What happens on occassions is that the monitoring provided by the venues is not good enough, so we pull out the earplugs.

We don't have a big bank account so we're looking into the best possible solution for the money.

After studying stuff from a few other bands the reading several forums I came up with this idea.

In-ears
I allready own molded earplugs fitted to my ears, I can buy special earbuds that turn them into in ear. The rest of the band will need to invest and look toward their possibilities. These could range from the cheaper Shure series (which they can test out and borrow from my younger brother) or also mold a set to their ears.

Wire(le)s(s)
Me (as a drummer) can just use a wired connection, but the guitars, bass and vocals would really come in hand using a wireless. Unfortunatelly decent ones of these don't come cheap. So for the guitar players I came up with an idea. We also use a wired connection to the amps, so I probably just put the 2 cables together, and create the box (the size of a normal wireless set) and attach it to their strap. On there are to plugs, one to their guitar, other one for their in ears. This leaves us just with singer who probably does need the wireless.

Monitor rig
- 19" Rack case (10-12 units in height)
- Behringer ADA8000 preamp
- MOTU 828MKII and use it in standalone mode. This gives use 4 stereo mixes OR 8 mono mixes. We'll configure everything in our studio space and can set the levels for each monitoring unit.
- Headphone amp, this device will help setting the level of your in-ear monitor quick and easy

Guitars
- 2 x Behringer V-AMP rackmodules
We're splitting the amp cable going to the amp and this one, this V-AMP will just be for inear purposes only.

Bass
- DI of bass amp

Vocals
Feed directly to the Behringer ADA8000

Drums
- Alesis D4, triggers on snare and kick. We'll see if it's easy to also include toms, but this will do fine to start with I guess.

The use of backing tracks, clicks and those things is also made easy with this. Really curious what you guys think of this idea.

 

[JonWormwood]

We use a motu 828mk3 + digimax for 5 stereo mixes (with dsp!) 4 sennheiser ew300 g1. Then wired to drummer. You can control you mix via iPhone/iPad. It's amazing.

Guitars are impulses from the gsp1101s, kick/toms are dm pro, split the snare, bass is split from the RBI, keys are spdif, and all vocals are split. On bigger stages, hooking up two 'underheads' is easy enough to get some cymbals/hats.

 

[-Noodles-]

If you gig a lot - spending real money will save you in the long term.
I would buy passive splitters, small rack mixer and your in ear system.

That way you can split off kick/snare/OH/bass DI/GTRL/GTRR & Vox and mix them yourselves. The rest of the signals will go to FOH. Using software is great - but can be unreliable if you don't know 100% what you're doing.

 

[Sloan]

To save some cash, you can use one stereo transmitter and send two different mono mixes.
Also, you may want to get a cheap reverb unit to put a little verb on the vocal(s), from my experience doing monitors it typically feels better for the vocalist.

If you are gigging places that have an in house monitor engineer, you should be able to hook in your wireless rack and not have to worry about mixing it yourself, will save you on the cost of the mixer etc...

Otherwise I think a hardware mixer would be preferred. No night will ever be the same so you need to be able to change things on the fly as much as possible.

 

[Sloan]

oops double post.

 

[GeertSamuel]

We use a motu 828mk3 + digimax for 5 stereo mixes (with dsp!) 4 sennheiser ew300 g1. Then wired to drummer. You can control you mix via iPhone/iPad. It's amazing.

Guitars are impulses from the gsp1101s, kick/toms are dm pro, split the snare, bass is split from the RBI, keys are spdif, and all vocals are split. On bigger stages, hooking up two 'underheads' is easy enough to get some cymbals/hats.

That's also an idea. I've spoken to some guys that use the MOTU 828 in standalone, and it works. I want to avoid using a laptop live, and try to cancel out as many variables. But we do take a laptop with us, that if we need to change some settings we can do it on the spot.

To save some cash, you can use one stereo transmitter and send two different mono mixes.
Also, you may want to get a cheap reverb unit to put a little verb on the vocal(s), from my experience doing monitors it typically feels better for the vocalist.

If you are gigging places that have an in house monitor engineer, you should be able to hook in your wireless rack and not have to worry about mixing it yourself, will save you on the cost of the mixer etc...

Otherwise I think a hardware mixer would be preferred. No night will ever be the same so you need to be able to change things on the fly as much as possible.

Yeah, we're thinking of maybe just buying a unit that gives some reverb and possibly dynamic processing to the vocals, just to get it clear in our in ear mix.
If we split our guitar signal and just use the Behringer v-amp, we're not depended on the amp settings of that evening. The mix should (almost!) be the same every night, in our ear atleast.

If you gig a lot - spending real money will save you in the long term.
I would buy passive splitters, small rack mixer and your in ear system.

That way you can split off kick/snare/OH/bass DI/GTRL/GTRR & Vox and mix them yourselves. The rest of the signals will go to FOH. Using software is great - but can be unreliable if you don't know 100% what you're doing.

Unfortunatelly, a small rack mixer is most of the time limited to 1 main out, 1 aux before processing and 1 after. We need a system where we can run atlest 4/5 auxes for different monitor mixes.
Thanks for the tip on passive splitters.



Thanks for the input guys, gives me further info on what to do.

 

[anotherpaul]

Great thread!

Unfortunatelly, a small rack mixer is most of the time limited to 1 main out, 1 aux before processing and 1 after. We need a system where we can run atlest 4/5 auxes for different monitor mixes.

Exactly! Can anybody link me to a mixer or a subclass of mixers that would give more than 2 controllable auxes?

 

[acegunn]

Great thread!



Exactly! Can anybody link me to a mixer or a subclass of mixers that would give more than 2 controllable auxes?

Search for "monitor mixer". One example is Crest XRM, but they're expensive.

 

[hsnyder]

I also approve of this thread... Not to derail, but feel free to share any reviews of IEM systems, I'm thinking of going that way. I've never used them, so I have no idea but I'd be interested which ones actually allow you to get a clearer mix at ear safe levels

 

[Sloan]

Search for "monitor mixer". One example is Crest XRM, but they're expensive.

yeah, typically to get more auxes, you have to look into dedicated monitor mixes, which sucks cause they are often more expensive...

 

[JonWormwood]

Motu 828mk3! It's a standalone mixer. Might not have faders but its great. We used to have a small netbook (as well as run our click tracks) to control it. But if you have a wireless router and an iPod/iPhone/iPad you can control your mix from it! Up to 8 stereo mixes! You can get them for about 400-500 used. If you don't need that many inputs, ultralite mk3 could suffice. I own both.

We got the sennheiser ew300 g1 because of the price, 150/ea. if you set up your rf correctly (and we don't use paddles/amplified antennas yet either) but it sounds pretty damn ace in my ears. No drop outs or interference. They body packs are rather large and don't have easily read back lights. And takes 9v. G2's are in the future but they are ~400 used.


If you're serious you should get an rf scanner (~$120) to do a quick scan of less used freqs. Rf is all about line of sight. We set up the transmitters up front and a snake that goes back to the motu by the drummer.

 

[JonWormwood]

Here's darkanes in-ear rig (thanks funky!)

The Darkplayer is just a touchscreen backing track player that has up to 6 tracks. I found the info on some french website or something.

 

[arvoitus]

Unfortunatelly, a small rack mixer is most of the time limited to 1 main out, 1 aux before processing and 1 after. We need a system where we can run atlest 4/5 auxes for different monitor mixes.

Exactly! Can anybody link me to a mixer or a subclass of mixers that would give more than 2 controllable auxes?

Allen & Heath Mixwizard series.
Buy one used, or new:
(16ch, 4 pre-fader aux + 2 post fader aux and 2 internal FX) http://www.thomann.de/nl/allenheath_wz162dx.htm

 

[DanLights]

Some time ago I found out about Behringer's p16 monitoring system and I'm really curious to try them, I made a thread but apparently no one knew anything: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/backline/773066-behringer-powerplay-p16.html

With buying all the things (the module and one personal mixer per band member), it's not cheaper than the motu, so the MOTU looks interesting

 

[JonWormwood]

Some time ago I found out about Behringer's p16 monitoring system and I'm really curious to try them, I made a thread but apparently no one knew anything: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/backline/773066-behringer-powerplay-p16.html

With buying all the things (the module and one personal mixer per band member), it's not cheaper than the motu, so the MOTU looks interesting

Ah, I remember when they were being unveiled at namm. Didn't know they were in stores.

It's cool. But this is cooler.

 

[A-STAR]

Guys do you send clicktrack to guitar/bass players or only to drummer?

 

[JonWormwood]

Guys do you send clicktrack to guitar/bass players or only to drummer?

Whoever wants it?

Hopefully sometime early next year I will have in-ear automation via MIDI.

 

[A-STAR]

My bassist plays better when he hears click. So usually only drummer use click yeah?

Do musicians usually have drums in their in-ears?