creating depth in the mix

[aenimaz]

I'm hesitating about use reberb in order to positioning of the instruments or better use delays (I've read something about Haas efect),I've placed all the instruments in pan ,frequency and volume but I don't know how to place the depth of each instrument.

 

[FIXXXER]

EQ/VOLUME

 

[bryan_kilco]

I feel that I cannot quite get my mixes depth-y enough either. I EQ everything, compress almost everything slightly, compress groups/master, etc.....and still my mixes sound "2-D" compared to more professional mixes. I obviously don't have thousands of dollars worth of outboard gear, but I guess it will just take time. Slowly getting better and better, but I feel like I'm missing something vital.

 

[aenimaz]

YOU DON'T USE REVERBS OR DELAYS?

 

[bryan_kilco]

Slight verb on drum group, snare, and tom group, and vox. Still, feels lacking. I rarely use delay except for distorted leads and maybe some clean guitar stuff. I think it's more a problem with my EQing and I may not be fitting everything together properly.

 

[szymon]

This has been discussed before, and i think it was explained pretty well.
Its kinda "mysterious", and almost everyone here will say "eq and compression". These are the basic tools for creating depth.
EQ first (try doing this in mono ), then other suff such as delays or reverbs.
Also - try to eq the instruments so the reverb is actually hearable on lower send volumes, rather than increasing the reverb volume.

cheers.

 

[RedDog]

Get your balance first. Add verb, delay where appropriate, automation on both faders and sends to get the flow going. The automation is key for my depth perception.

 

[aenimaz]

I've read an article of tischmeyer, he puts a convolution reverb and send all the instruments and with more or less sending signal he places for example voice at front (0 verb level send) guitars slight rear , bass slight more rear drums more rear and keyboards or samplers more rear(more verb level send) all with the same reverb, I tryed this but spliting the drumkit in order to put kick in front, the result seems good and in fact at the moment I do all my work in that way, but it's not enough and I don't know if anybody works in that way in metal productions, or use more delays (Haas) or only as you said EQ COMP pan and level, I think it's possible with the reverb loose clarity of the instruments or mess all the mix or maybe it's the good way.

 

[pikachu69]

I will go out on a limb here and point out the obvious, the ones who say they dont use verb and delay much if any are the ones complaining about lack of depth in there mixes.
Yes eq and comp are important to the mix it goes without saying. This helps to achieve balance across the frequency spectrum without any distracting volume spikes. Depth, I feel is different. I think of this as Stav said when he coined the phrase 'the ghost between the speakers'. To achieve that 3D effect delay and verb are vital.

Just listen to a mix like this:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8dh9gDzmz8&ob=av2e[/ame]

Great song and a great sound for the time but very 2 dimensional.
Why? no verb or delay. Everything is eq'ed well and compressed nicely though.

Now listen to this:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SffqUQ7WBg&feature=related[/ame]

Same band. Lots of verb and delay.

The trick is treating the verb and delay like another instrument in the mix. Use eq and compression to shape it to fit. Hi and low pass filters are your best friends here. Try to Low pass your verbs and delays right down to 3khz and up to round 7khz. No magic numbers just move them round for different tracks till it fits.

 

[colonel kurtz]

along with reverb/delay, pikachu nailed it on the HP/LP filters...both for the instrument tracks as well as your effects sends

the less high mids/treble in a source, the farther away it seems, so often times setting a LP filter properly can create more front-to-back depth than anything else

 

[Plendakor]

I use reverb and delay mostly everywhere lol. There's a difference between a bottle of reverb and a drop of reverb, if you will, but both quantity will be required at differant places, for me anyway..
I really like the "width" button on my console. I decide the size of the "pizza slice" I allow for the instrument and its reverb.
Automation is that logical magical thing that does wonders.
I have differant amount of verbs on the drums for instance, and still use a room reverb on top of the other reverbs on the buss.
I beleive the tuning of the instruments (including drums) will affect the depth).

Sorry for my bad analogies, and english That's just a big picture of how I see it + tons of usefull stuff on this forum.

 

[aenimaz]

I use different reverbs for example one for snare and toms and other after the delay in vox but at the end all the parts in more or less measure are send to a room convolution verb, simulating studio room, more send and less highs=more back in the mix, this method seems work fine for me but I think it's not enough and maybe with delay (one for every instrument with diferents settings in oder to simulate different reflections) could be better, anybody use this method with delays?, I have all the frequency stuff and level almost pinned but the mix do not breath that depth of some comercial mixes.

 

[vespiz]

If I want to tuck something back, say a guitar riff that's "just" added as spicing, I'll throw a short room/plate on it and mess with the channel volume and reverb send until I get it sitting where I want it. Just enough verb that it takes a step back but doesn't sound like there's reverb on it. Adjusting the pre-delay is also important.
All this depends on the rest of the mix and arrangement, of course...

 

[HostileEx]

I've noticed that it comes with experience. Surgical EQ goes a long way, Use compression only as needed. Don't over-process.

Many factors develop the sound, one factor ruins the sound.

 

[P-E]

EQ a lot so everything has its place in the mix, then use reverbs and delay to add depth.

 

[Patrick (Nemesis)]

I often use 2-3 send busses with a convolution reverb with same settings but different predelay times to model different distances. For example, vocals go to the bus with more predelay, as the vocalist is (virtually) standing in front of you and reflections take more time to return to your ear compared to the original signal. For drums, I often imagine them standing near the back wall (of a stage) and reflections return very shortly after the original signal, therefore I send them to the bus with short predelay time (I often take out bass drum and snare from this rule).

Of course, EQ, pan etc. is used too as suggested before...

 

[aenimaz]

I often use 2-3 send busses with a convolution reverb with same settings but different predelay times to model different distances. For example, vocals go to the bus with more predelay, as the vocalist is (virtually) standing in front of you and reflections take more time to return to your ear compared to the original signal. For drums, I often imagine them standing near the back wall (of a stage) and reflections return very shortly after the original signal, therefore I send them to the bus with short predelay time (I often take out bass drum and snare from this rule).

Of course, EQ, pan etc. is used too as suggested before...

do you have noticed if more level send seems more back in the space or not?
What are your choices on predealay time for every verb?

 

[Patrick (Nemesis)]

Yes, more send level means that the room signal is getting louder compared to the original source. So it is one aspect to consider.

I don't really have a rule for predelay times, but you could start wit 50-80ms for stuff that is near and something like 0-10ms for very far stuff.