Dat drum punch .......

bryan_kilco

bryan_kilco

Member
Nov 22, 2007
4,618
19
38
Poconos, PA
Been trying to weed out my clarity issues lately.

I can get a decent sounding mix when it's just drums, bass, and guitars. As soon as I add vocals or leads, I start getting cloudy/masking, etc.

Just now I realized, in a BS mix I did for shit's n giggles this morning, that I have my drum bus fader peaking about -6 db while my guitar bus is hitting about -24 and bass hitting like -20. Things still sound punchy and clear.

But I find that, when I add vocals, I want to raise my guitars to around -18 or higher. I think my problem is surgical EQing and I've tried a bunch of times to just simply notch away freqs on guitar, boost that freq on vox, etc....with almost no luck at all.

I've been doing this as a hobby for like 7 or 8 years now and I feel that either I'm completely missing something stupid, or I just suck at mixing.

I feel like I get a good mix going, then reference to a pro-quality cd, and it brings me down so badly. These drums just SLAMMING and guitars right in your face, yet SOOOOO fucking loud. If I even get in the ballpark with loudness, my shit is clipping like mad.

TL;DR: Masking, unclear mixes when vocals present. And basically feeling down because it seems like I'll never be able to reach a mix like a lot of you guys here.
 
I know that feel bro, just keep in mind that "pros" usually use good to top notch gear in flat listening environments not everyone can afford.
 
Gave this a thought, without clips I would guess that the issue is that the vocals are not bright enough. If the instrument mix sounds good by itself, then the issue must be with the part that causes the problem. Perhaps you should hipass and hishelf more aggressively. Just a guess.
 
Hmm really? Actually, I cranked my monitors pretty good here for a bit and listened back and it seemed to sound better than the other day when I mixed it. Odd, considering I destroyed my ears at band practice last night.

I just feel I can never get that 3D sound or that glue that is needed. I hear a lot of mixes around here where the guitars sound SUPER scooped in the midrange, yet are cutting right in your face.
 
botus99 said:
Sounds pretty good to me so far, but the vocals sound a little thin. They need to be thicker around 500-800hz
Click to expand...

Looking at the session now, I scooped a few dB away from around 500hz because that area seemed a bit muddy.

Maybe the room we tracked in plays a bigger part with vocals than I'm realizing? Shitty room, no treatment. Probably should have made a makeshift vocal booth.....
 
^ It does play a role. Your mix isn't far off man. Much better than a lot of what I hear in the rmm section. IMO, the guitars could be a little louder and maybe eq'd differently so they sit up without taking more real-estate.

And don't worry, you're going through the same issues everyone else on this forum is dealing with...
 
Could anyone possibly upload a screen capture of their guitar post EQ? I know it won't exactly help me much, but maybe as a starting point.

Most mixes I hear around here, guitars seem darker and just smoother. Like, they glue with everything perfectly. Where mine seem very detached to my ears.

I may not be cutting away enough harsh frequencies.
 
pic of my eq
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/41026129/guitareqlol.png

heres what it sounds like
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/41026129/gutters.mp3

stop worrying so much and just find something you dig.

guitars sound a little thin to me. i would probably add a little more low end around 300 to them. and the drums are kinda a little louder than i would have them setting.
a big part of these slamming mixes your listening to is the mixes being very well balanced so the can be slammed in mastering. if your drums are sticking out over everything else then they will be making your master distort to early.
maybe go a little easier on the cuts/lowpass on your highend? that will make them very thin/weak fast. try using some type of saturation like toneboosters reelbus(very cheap) to help smooth out the highs.

but what you have def doesnt sound bad. maybe if the guitar was just more balanced and louder it would fix everything
 
I haven't listened as I'm on my phone but one thing you can try is boosting a fairly narrow band in your guitars and sweeping it around to where it clouds the vocals the most. Then make a small cut in the guitars and/or a small boost in the vocal.
 
Mix isn't that bad mate, just might need some expansion across the spectrum. Make the punch lower, make the air higher, get rid of the useless mids. Let the whole thing breathe a little more. Get more clean low-end in there. It just sounds a little flat at the moment.
 
Your guitar tone really...how would peter griffin put it? oh yeah, your guitar tone really grinds my gears.

It makes the guitars sound really fake, have you tried the screamer from
Waves GTR solo? It sounds more natural

You're not using EMG HZs are you?

Or maybe it's just me, I can't use pencils because they make that scratchy
sound too.

Messing around with pedals i found that most of the software TS make amp sims sound more "Digital", i tried TSE's R47 as a screamer, that thing makes amp sims sound SS :devil:

Lately i found that using the old simulanalog JCM900 clean chanel as a preamp
with treble and high al the way up gives amps this nasty tone that makes them sound a tiny bit more real.
 
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