Decent, clean guitar rig for live shows?

[DanLights]

It´s for rehearsing and playing live, we would be using a POD Xt Live for all the sounds/effects so we really just need a decent combo amp (or head/cab rig) not too expensive but loud and good enough to be heard in live shows, mostly small venues where PA feed from guitars would be minimal if not non-existent. Preferably with a power amp in or at least fx loop so we could plug the POD straight into the power amp to avoid extra pain in the ass coloring from the preamp of the amp. Budget is no more than 350 Euros, hopefully less.

I´m looking at buying for example this:
http://www.thomann.de/es/fender_fm100h_b_stock.htm
http://www.thomann.de/es/harley_benton_g212_vintage.htm

the head´s cheap cause it´s Bstock, I´ve never bought a Bstock item, is it safe enough? In an old rehearsal place we had a frontman combo amp and it worked great by just plugging the POD into the power amp in, and the amp itself even sounds really good for what we use it (Rock cover band), so in case of an emergency it could still be perfectly usable by itself if the POD ever bails on us. And the cab I figured is a no brainer cause I´ve read good comments from these things, can´t really go wrong with V30s and it seems to be the best option within the budget.

I also tried searching the local used market but all I can find within price range is this: http://cgi.ebay.es/Cabezal-de-Guita...tDomain_186&hash=item3357655f7b#ht_3228wt_908

Never used a Hartke guitar amp, so I wouldn´t know, but the Fender is something I´ve used and I´m sure it could work.

One thing that worries me about the Fender/Benton setup is that the cab is 120watts/8ohm and the head is 100 Watt, 4 Ohm so if I understand, since the resistance of the cab is higher then the real output will not be 100 w but considerably less? If so, maybe I should keep looking? Cause I need the loudness, at least the first shows will be in small venues and the amps will need to hold their strength both in stage and to the audience.

 

[Omega_Void]

... I´ve never bought a Bstock item, is it safe enough?

If it had returned broken, Thomann would have to list it as "refurbished". Probably it's just someone bought it and changed their mind.

It says "full warranty", so you're covered anyway.

...the cab is 120watts/8ohm and the head is 100 Watt, 4 Ohm so if I understand, since the resistance of the cab is higher then the real output will not be 100 w but considerably less?

Depends on the output impedance of the amp.

If Zout is zero, the same voltage is put across the speaker regardless of speaker impedance. Doubling the speaker resistance then halves the current flow. So you lose half the output.

But most solid-state guitar amps have high output impedance, to better perform like tube amps.

So for example, if Zout = 4 ohms, going from a 4-ohm to an 8-ohm load is a total impedance increase of only 50%, so current flow is reduced by only one third. Power dissipation in the speakers reaches ~88.8 Watts.

And bear in mind, Vintage 30s have 100dB sensitivity. 50 Watts into V30s brings the same SPL as 100W into G12T-75s (97dB sensitivity).

If find you need an extra dB or two, you could always sell the two 16-ohm speakers, get a couple of 8-ohm V30s in, for a 4-ohm total load.

For small venues you probably won't need to.

 

[AllanD]

Just get a cheap power amp since you're just going to be using the POD.

 

[DanLights]

If it had returned broken, Thomann would have to list it as "refurbished". Probably it's just someone bought it and changed their mind.

It says "full warranty", so you're covered anyway.



Depends on the output impedance of the amp.

If Zout is zero, the same voltage is put across the speaker regardless of speaker impedance. Doubling the speaker resistance then halves the current flow. So you lose half the output.

But most solid-state guitar amps have high output impedance, to better perform like tube amps.

So for example, if Zout = 4 ohms, going from a 4-ohm to an 8-ohm load is a total impedance increase of only 50%, so current flow is reduced by only one third. Power dissipation in the speakers reaches ~88.8 Watts.

And bear in mind, Vintage 30s have 100dB sensitivity. 50 Watts into V30s brings the same SPL as 100W into G12T-75s (97dB sensitivity).

If find you need an extra dB or two, you could always sell the two 16-ohm speakers, get a couple of 8-ohm V30s in, for a 4-ohm total load.

For small venues you probably won't need to.

once again, thanks a lot, your input is appreciated, I will take that into consideration. I am also looking at simply getting the Fender frontman 100w combo cause it´s the one we´ve used before and would solve the hassle of matching cabs and stuff, plus it´s easier to take to rehearsal and shows.

Just get a cheap power amp since you're just going to be using the POD.

Yeah I´ve considered that as well, but I can´t seem to find any poweramp that is cheaper than a head, plus there´s the risk that without a POD it´s pretty much useless, like it can´t be used for any other purposes such as recording, or if the POD fails or is unavailable for any reason in a rehearsal or show, then we´re screwed for that day. Have any reccomendations on a decent cheap poweramp?

 

[Shinozoku]

B stock stuff usually has a dent or tear or just some small imperfection somewhere. My buddy got a B stock Schecter C-7 FR and it was in nearly impeccable condition. There was a small dent in the finish between pickups, but the reason it was listed as a B stock was due to a slight imperfection in the binding on the treble side cutaway at the neck-to-body joint.

Check out the EHX 44 Magnum and a good 2x12. I've heard pluses and minuses from it about it adding a lot of highs, but it's worth a shot. Just get a 30 day return guarantee or something in case you don't care for it.

 

[DanLights]

But do you think 44 watts will be enough for live shows? Never used it, but I´m just judging on the specs.

 

[Shinozoku]

From what I've heard, it's crazy loud. There are clips of it being heard over loud drums. Once again, get it with a return to see if it will work for you. But it would be the most affordable solution while providing great sound (as opposed to the lackluster Frontman amps).

 

[if6was9]

Second hand crate powerblock would be what I'd get in that situation. I hate those fenders, never heard a band sound good with one!

 

[DanLights]

Well I've had good experiences with the Fender, for our metal band it works cause we just plug the pod into the power amp in and it sounds good cause there's no fender preamp coloring the original pod tone we have. Coincidentally, I found guy selling a used Fender frontman for really cheap and in my own neighborhood, so I'll check it out just to make sure, but I'm still looking at options such as the crate, the magnum seems hard to find in Europe, but I was impressed by some YouTube demos

 

[Trevoire520]

Dude, pick up a Peavey Windsor/Valveking.
Cheap, valve, and if the pod dies it'll work as a backup amp!
Plug into the fx loop return as you're already planning to and switch any cab simulation on the pod off.
Running through a valve poweramp REALLY helps the pod sound better imo.

 

[DanLights]

Dude, pick up a Peavey Windsor/Valveking.
Cheap, valve, and if the pod dies it'll work as a backup amp!
Plug into the fx loop return as you're already planning to and switch any cab simulation on the pod off.
Running through a valve poweramp REALLY helps the pod sound better imo.

Honestly, I dislike valvekings, they suck at using other tones with them, at least in my experience, and their own sound isn't to my liking either. I haven't tried a Windsor though, I'll look into that

 

[Djunn]

Check Tech 21 Power Engine 60. It exactly does what you want. I'm not sure about the price over there though.

http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/powerengine/powerengine60.html

 

[abigor731]

i also used this kind of setup for quite a while only with a zoom fx unit
not the best tone of course, but it worked and its flexible
i have the windsor and i actually don't like it for this kind of thing, the multi-fx somehow sounded a bit better with my other head, a marshall valvestate 8100
also, you cannot use the windsor's volume knob with this configuration cause it is routed before the fx loop (like on the 5150), its a lot heavier than the 8100 as well