DI BOX VS TS-9 INPUT!

[reneisgod]

Apart from the obvious benefits (reamping etc) Why do we use DI boxes if true bypass effects pedals such as the TS-9 already have high input impedance and a low output impedance, I think the TS-9 is 500K ohms.

I ran a few tests;

Audio 1; guitar into M-Audio Hi-z input (Hi-z input my ass!)

Audio 2; TS-9 (ts-9-switched off!) into M Audio line in
as the ts 9 isn't true bypass then on or off its still effecting the signal.

Audio 3; Radial J48 DI Box into M Audio mic input.

The guitar is fitted with a passive Dimarzio - crunch lab

To my ears the TS-9 sounds better than the Radial J48 so i guess my question is why are people including myself forking out on expensive DI-boxes - mic pre's when the same if not better results can be achieved through non true FX pedals?

In the real world most of us are going through a tube screamer before we hit our amp anyways so technically you're feeding the same signal to your audio interface as your amp right?

Am I being a dumb ass and missing something here?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/duawpxw70uvgz0g/test.wav?dl=0

 

[deLuther]

1) Because good Hi-Z input has 1 MOhm input impedance, like on typical tube amplifier.
2) Because transistor buffers on typical screamer can not bypass signals with peak level higher than 2 V (or so), and even at levels below 2 V distortion is higher. Usually lower half of wave is clipped (asymmetrical clipping). It is standard behaviour of buffers built from one transistor. Op-amp buffer usually gives less distortion at the same power supply in vicinity of clipping threshold.

J48 is not good for example of quality because of 220 kOhm impedance, i.e. impedance is less than typical screamer. Input levels also not that high...

ps. Can you post just DI signal, better something with hard picking?

 

[reneisgod]

"Because good Hi-Z input has 1 MOhm input impedance, like on typical tube amplifier."

true but the majority of people go through a TS-9 which is 500K ohms
before they hit their amp which is 1 MOhm anyways so why should that matter.

Ill try out another DI box, its a low budget Samson s Direct but has 1 meg impedance, ill upload some down picking clips (dry)

I think my main point really is regardless of the quality the DI recorded, for those using a ts-9 in their chain that initial signal is lost in transition before it even gets to the amp through the ts-9, right? so for this type of scenario why not just record your DI through a ts-9 to begin with.

TS-9 vs Samson s Direct DI

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7bsluycwot...irect.wav?dl=0

 

[deLuther]

And what if you want to have reamping without TS or with different pedal?
Also there signal will go twice through input-output buffer of TS... so there will be additional noise from average transistors and additional distortion.
I`m better record with my preamp that can accept large levels (uncommon for most DI-boxes and, of course, for pedal buffers), so I`m will have minimal noise and distortion and can decide later whatever I`m will use during reamping process. I.e. DI signal as best as possible.

ps. fix last link, it does not working.

 

[reneisgod]

fixed link

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7bsluycwotc4w8c/ts9 - s direct.wav?dl=0

"And what if you want to have reamping without TS or with different pedal?
Also there signal will go twice through input-output buffer of TS"

very good point!

 

[deLuther]

It seems that both don`t have any signs of clipping. In case of standard wiring for DM or SD, when strong peaks reside in lower half of wave, such peaks are first candidates for clipping, maybe pickup gives not enough peak level for such problem to appear.
It can be seen that TS buffer cuts more low frequencies, due to capacitors nominals, sometime it can be desired effect, in general it means further deviation from original pickup tone.
Second part (S-Direct, I suppose) has slightly less noise than first part, but in both cases noise have pretty nasty audible character (not just white noise kind).

 

[reneisgod]

Thanks for checking that out, defo low cut on the ts-9. Noise is either due to sitting next to my computer or the shitty m-audio m track. I'll stick with the ts-9 approach, im not reamping anyways and i have a kemper in the post from santa anyways

 

[LeSedna]

Because the day I listened to my DIs through my Type85 vs the HiZ input of my interface, I shat bricks and that is all that mattered to me that day !

It just sounded more "3D" right away. It's not just about the numbers, some quality units will give you that % of respect in whatever harmonics or frequency they respect better, and that's what will make it sound better in the end. It's like the difference between your stock Eq and an expensive software EQ, numbers shouldn't matter but when you compared them, they sound different (I can't really tame frequencies with Reaper's stock EQ, but it's instantaneously working in DMG Equality, for ringing frequencies, as an example).

 

[deLuther]

"3D" can also means saturation from Type85 (check specifications) and not 1 to 1 tone transfer, like some kind of pedal with coloration
Also 10 MOhm can be such case, but, unless you connect Thru output to amp, you can different resonance peak level in case of passive pickup (higher).