Difference between the mix and the master?

[schnykeees]

tl;dr? read the underlined part.

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Excluding overall volume, do your mixes tend to sound like commercial masters? I'm talking about things like seperation, proper stereo width with certian instruments (electric guitar rhythm for example) and cohesiveness.

I've only been mixing for about 6 months or so and I can always tell the difference between my mixes and commercial ones. I know mine aren't professionally mastered... but this is where the problem originates. Is the reason my mixes sound average due to the fact that it's an average mix with a poopy master or is it an acceptable mix with a poopy master? I'm just wondering how my mixes would sound if a veteran, seasoned, professional mastering engineer got a chance to work his magic on them.

Should I post one my mixes for you guys to get a feel for what I'm talking about?

 

[Fragle]

try to get as close as possible in the mixing stage.

a good master will make the good things in your mix even better, and to some degree cover up/fix the bad parts of it. it won't turn shit into gold though.

 

[Omega_Void]

If it's a good mix the master should come back sounding the same but louder, maybe a little more "polished" sounding.

An interesting exercise for me was comparing the original release of "Slaughter of the Soul" CD (which I have) to the reissue (which a friend has). The producer (Fredrik Nordstrom) has said in an interview the original mastering was simply to put a limiter on and turn it up a bit. The remastered sound was a little smoother and fuller-sounding, but the difference was only slight.

A good mastering engineer may be able to correct problems in the mix, but some are easier to put right than others, so you should aim for the mix sounding right in the first place.

 

[ahjteam]

Is the reason my mixes sound average due to the fact that it's an average mix with a poopy master or is it an acceptable mix with a poopy master?

if the performance sucks, making a good mix is hard

 

[schnykeees]

if the performance sucks, making a good mix is hard

You are right. There's only so much editing can fix. I've learned how to beat detect in school and all that, but I've only recently started having to actually use it. Same with guitar, and that's only if you record it dry and then re amp it later. I find it alot harder to edit guitar tracks already recorded down from the amp.

My biggest issue, I guess, is the overall cohesiveness/separation of the mix. It's like the rhythm guitars are fighting with the vocal and snare. Same with bass and kick. Are those issues fixable by just EQ or it something else entirely? When I listen to commercial mixes, I don't hear these same issues. The guitars are like a huge wall of sound but yet everything else seems to have it's own real estate.

I put a 100z HPF and 13k LPF on all my guitars, I use subtractive EQ to take out all the nasty sound frequencies. What techniques do you find yourself doing to achieve this? I feel it's the biggest issue with all of my mixes and if I found a away around it, the mixes would increase in production value ten fold.

 

[jval]

IME mastering should only enhance what is there. If you're not happy with the sound of your work, keep practicing the basics... mastering is the very last thing to blame.

 

[schnykeees]

IME mastering should only enhance what is there. If you're not happy with the sound of your work, keep practicing the basics... mastering is the very last thing to blame.

Good advice, and that's what I've been working on. Just trying to get the best possible tones from the drums and guitars. Get the mics sounding good, replace if need be, EQ crap frequencies and comp if necessary... but I still feel sometimes it's lacking something magical. I'm sure I'll stumble across the intangibles soon enough.

 

[ahjteam]

EQ crap frequencies and comp if necessary

get it right at the source > processing

 

[BLUElightCory]

If you've only been recording/mixing for 6 months you shouldn't beat yourself up for not yet turning in mixes that hang with Andy Sneap/CLA/etc. Many of the top engineers/mixers in the industry have been honing their skills for 15-20 years or more. Just keep working, improve your skills by 1% with every project you do, and you'll get there.

 

[schnykeees]

get it right at the source > processing

I agree. I work alot with projects that I didn't track.

 

[timislegend]

i always find myself saying the opposite...

is my master taking away from my mix? fundamentally, we are both on the right track. other than years of experience and the incredible access to world class pre/post production audio equipment, these commercial mixing engineers are faced with the same conundrum.

in my experience; the first mix is never the pre-master final. i say this only because i refuse to spend more the 1 hour on a mix. if the mix is not coming together on it's own based on source material and editing practices... it will not be the pre-master.

personally, i go through about four different mixes until i am happy with the "pre-final" ...the reason i say about four is because of time based processor choices (reverb, echoes, chorus and other tbp).

spending too much time on a mix limits me and fatigues me. if you feel like you can do more to make your mix assimilate to the normal, commercial array of mixing engineers... well, join the club. even professional mixing engineers are a little insecure about some of there final mix-before-the-master.

but personally ...i feel the opposite.