So... if the diminished scale is alternating whole and half steps, starting with a whole step, what is the scale called if you started off with a half step?
Diminished Scale Theory
- Thread starter Brooks
- Start date
Steve Smyth
Lead Axe
Hey Brooks,
There are two different types of diminished scales, both called symetrical diminshed scales, because they're structured in whole-half step, or half-whole step fashion.
For instance, if you play: A, Bb,C,C#,D#,E,F#,G, you're playing a symetrical diminished scale, beginning with a half step, or symetrical diminished half-whole.
If you play: A,B,C,D,Eb,F,Gb,Ab, you're playing a symetrical diminished scale, beginning from a whole step, or symetrical diminished whole-half.
Hope that helps!
I hope to have a sample of one of these diminished scales in use from a song called The Afterlife, off The EssenEss Proejct debut, shortly.
There are two different types of diminished scales, both called symetrical diminshed scales, because they're structured in whole-half step, or half-whole step fashion.
For instance, if you play: A, Bb,C,C#,D#,E,F#,G, you're playing a symetrical diminished scale, beginning with a half step, or symetrical diminished half-whole.
If you play: A,B,C,D,Eb,F,Gb,Ab, you're playing a symetrical diminished scale, beginning from a whole step, or symetrical diminished whole-half.
Hope that helps!
I hope to have a sample of one of these diminished scales in use from a song called The Afterlife, off The EssenEss Proejct debut, shortly.
Noumenon
Obsidian Productions
I've found these scales to be really helpful when wanting to break out from another scale. basically they rule!
Steve Smyth
Lead Axe
guitarguru777
Member
Steve Smyth
Lead Axe
Sounds like a plan! Let me get this album done first, and I'll muster up some cool stuff! 4 notes per string, eh Brooks? I'll do it. For now, go check out Allan Holdsworth "Metal Fatigue" for some absolutely sickening 4 note per string legato!
Anytime I feel like being completely blown away by guitar, I put on Holdsworth's rendition of Coltrane's Countdown. THOSE are some nasty changes, and Holdsy just blows all over it.
Have you heard that one Steve? Its the first track on his None Too Soon record....
It takes a guitarist with some serious cojones to try to play over Coltrane shit. Holdsworth has the brassers!
Have you heard that one Steve? Its the first track on his None Too Soon record....
It takes a guitarist with some serious cojones to try to play over Coltrane shit. Holdsworth has the brassers!
Noumenon
Obsidian Productions
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Steve Smyth said:Sounds like a plan! Let me get this album done first, and I'll muster up some cool stuff! 4 notes per string, eh Brooks? I'll do it. For now, go check out Allan Holdsworth "Metal Fatigue" for some absolutely sickening 4 note per string legato!
Oh man, 'Devil Take the Hindmost' has been owning me ever since I got the album...
Love that rumbling groovy bass too.
guitarguru777
Member
ok, the diminished scales are bitches right now towards my neuron, and may kill the last one. So what i'm asking is that someone write me a 2 octave diminished scale from root to root in tab form. And explain me how can i use to solo over some backing track in some key.
For example please some onewrite me a tab form of the half whole dimineshed A scale. Can i use that A scale to solo over a A power chord?
i hope my post makes sense. and i hope your brain cell(s) don't feel lonely today
For example please some onewrite me a tab form of the half whole dimineshed A scale. Can i use that A scale to solo over a A power chord?
i hope my post makes sense. and i hope your brain cell(s) don't feel lonely today
Steve Smyth
Lead Axe
Hey lordofthesewers,
if I wasn't feeling so retarded when it comes to putting tab on the forum here, I'd do it reight away.
If someone can give me a clue (GURU?!) as to how to do this, I'd spit this out for ya real quick....
To answer your question, yes, you can use the A diminished to solo over an A5 chord. Try it. It's gonna sound a little funky, but try to center your phrases around the A and E notes, and it'll come to life a little more. Hope that helps! Now fry those brain cells on that!
if I wasn't feeling so retarded when it comes to putting tab on the forum here, I'd do it reight away.
If someone can give me a clue (GURU?!) as to how to do this, I'd spit this out for ya real quick....
To answer your question, yes, you can use the A diminished to solo over an A5 chord. Try it. It's gonna sound a little funky, but try to center your phrases around the A and E notes, and it'll come to life a little more. Hope that helps! Now fry those brain cells on that!
If you're going to play 4NPS there are two patterns you can use. Starting both on the 5th fret of the E string:
Whole-Half Diminished
E----------------------------------------------------------11-13-14-16--
B--------------------------------------------10-12-13-15----------------
G--------------------------------8-10-11-13-----------------------------
D--------------------7-9-10-12------------------------------------------
A----------6-8-9-11-----------------------------------------------------
E-5-7-8-10---------------------------------------------------------------
Half-Whole Diminished
E-------------------------------------------------------11-12-14-15
B-----------------------------------------10-11-13-14--------------
G------------------------------8-9-11-12---------------------------
D-------------------7-8-10-11--------------------------------------
A---------6-7-9-10-------------------------------------------------
E-5 6 8 9-----------------------------------------------------------
As you can see, both are 4NPS shapes moving up by tritones across strings - no repeated notes, just fun little stretches here and there. If you don't want to stretch and would like to keep it at reasonable 3NPS stretches, use this (starting at the 12th fret on the E string):
E---------------------------------------------------11-12-14 15-
B-----------------------------------------11-13-14--------------
G-------------------------------11-12-14------------------------
D---------------------11-13-14----------------------------------
A-----------12-13-15--------------------------------------------
E-12-14-15------------------------------------------------------
You can use any diminished over any progression (hell, there are only three diminished scales, because they repeat every minor third - which also means that two out of every three notes you play will be in a given diminished scale, statistically speaking) - just don't overuse it. You'll have to write some pretty goofy sounding stuff to use all-diminished runs very long, and then it'll just come across as wanking. Mix it in with the Locrian (seventh major scale mode) and Super Locrian (Locrian b4 - from Melodic Minor) over strange sounding harmonies anywhere you may find them; also toy with those three and the Locrian n2 over power chords. Use them for that bit of 'evil' or 'sinister' sound where necessary, but don't forget that anyone you hear using this is using it well by matching it with their mood and phrasing, not staying in it to the point that it loses the novelty and just sounds like an exercise, and not playing diminished solely for the sake of playing diminished - Loomis throws in chromatics, Marty Friedman arpeggiates and doesn't use one scale for more than two measures anymore, Peter Lindgren goes all over the fucking place and his phrasing and melody lines don't even sound diminished because he uses the scale as his major/minor scale and literally breathes in it, and even Holdsworth, master of all things that should not be physically possible to play, said in his instructional book/video that it had a 'cheesy' kind of sound that he didn't very much like so he didn't use it for the typical diminished sound. Also, it may help to take care with where you use both minor and major thirds in the half-whole scale, as it sounds great in some places but turns the line to shit in others. If none of that made sense, ignore everything but the shapes and have fun.
Jeff
Whole-Half Diminished
E----------------------------------------------------------11-13-14-16--
B--------------------------------------------10-12-13-15----------------
G--------------------------------8-10-11-13-----------------------------
D--------------------7-9-10-12------------------------------------------
A----------6-8-9-11-----------------------------------------------------
E-5-7-8-10---------------------------------------------------------------
Half-Whole Diminished
E-------------------------------------------------------11-12-14-15
B-----------------------------------------10-11-13-14--------------
G------------------------------8-9-11-12---------------------------
D-------------------7-8-10-11--------------------------------------
A---------6-7-9-10-------------------------------------------------
E-5 6 8 9-----------------------------------------------------------
As you can see, both are 4NPS shapes moving up by tritones across strings - no repeated notes, just fun little stretches here and there. If you don't want to stretch and would like to keep it at reasonable 3NPS stretches, use this (starting at the 12th fret on the E string):
E---------------------------------------------------11-12-14 15-
B-----------------------------------------11-13-14--------------
G-------------------------------11-12-14------------------------
D---------------------11-13-14----------------------------------
A-----------12-13-15--------------------------------------------
E-12-14-15------------------------------------------------------
You can use any diminished over any progression (hell, there are only three diminished scales, because they repeat every minor third - which also means that two out of every three notes you play will be in a given diminished scale, statistically speaking) - just don't overuse it. You'll have to write some pretty goofy sounding stuff to use all-diminished runs very long, and then it'll just come across as wanking. Mix it in with the Locrian (seventh major scale mode) and Super Locrian (Locrian b4 - from Melodic Minor) over strange sounding harmonies anywhere you may find them; also toy with those three and the Locrian n2 over power chords. Use them for that bit of 'evil' or 'sinister' sound where necessary, but don't forget that anyone you hear using this is using it well by matching it with their mood and phrasing, not staying in it to the point that it loses the novelty and just sounds like an exercise, and not playing diminished solely for the sake of playing diminished - Loomis throws in chromatics, Marty Friedman arpeggiates and doesn't use one scale for more than two measures anymore, Peter Lindgren goes all over the fucking place and his phrasing and melody lines don't even sound diminished because he uses the scale as his major/minor scale and literally breathes in it, and even Holdsworth, master of all things that should not be physically possible to play, said in his instructional book/video that it had a 'cheesy' kind of sound that he didn't very much like so he didn't use it for the typical diminished sound. Also, it may help to take care with where you use both minor and major thirds in the half-whole scale, as it sounds great in some places but turns the line to shit in others. If none of that made sense, ignore everything but the shapes and have fun.
Jeff
Oh, balls, a minute off from the master himself. Wow, I feel useless.
EDIT: For forum tabs, just use a bunch of hyphens and copy and paste them in front of E-A-D-G-B-E like
E---------------------------------------------------------
B---------------------------------------------------------
G---------------------------------------------------------
D---------------------------------------------------------
A---------------------------------------------------------
E---------------------------------------------------------
(or just copy and expand this template).
Jeff
EDIT: For forum tabs, just use a bunch of hyphens and copy and paste them in front of E-A-D-G-B-E like
E---------------------------------------------------------
B---------------------------------------------------------
G---------------------------------------------------------
D---------------------------------------------------------
A---------------------------------------------------------
E---------------------------------------------------------
(or just copy and expand this template).
Jeff
muchas gracias everyone. I will practice the shapes and maybe come out with something good.
FYI i don;t how but my brain cell multiplied over night.
thanks jeff&steve
FYI i don;t how but my brain cell multiplied over night.
thanks jeff&steve
Seedawakener
aka Ophidian
Ive done that half-whole just to play something (Im a complete noob when it comes to soloing) for a while. I never knew It would really pay out doing that :,D!
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