Discussion Of Disavowed Lyrics

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Someone finally posted the lyrics to Disavowed's (incredible) album Perceptive Deception. I'd like to take this time to make the band's lyrics known to the general public of this board, as I know that you like to have philosophical and constructive debates/arguments/trash-talking/discussion on things.

Below are links to the lyrics of each song. I honestly think they're very intellectual (with good reason, seeing as how the band, who are Dutch, has quite a greater grasp of the English language in general than a lot of people in the US and other countries where English is prevalent in one form or another), and that a lot of it has to do with how humanity needs to evolve past the need to create values and discussions of pointless and irrelevant pieces of "matter."

Rhizome
Abolition Of Impediment
Reason Rejected
Condensed Conditions
Masses Conformed
Unfolding Disposition
Generative Patterns
Critical Emulation
Opposite Extremities​

Discuss.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

The band, musically, is Suffo-worship (Effigy-era), since they're on Unique Leader. However, they're pretty unique in their lyrics and provde a nice fucking slab of modern technical death metal with a forward thinking concept.

EDIT: Their homepage has the track Abolition Of Impediment up for download in the Audio section under AudioVisuals.

 

[Cythraul]

Hmmm, interesting stuff. The lyrics seem more like philosophical aphorisms than ordinary lyrics. I like the ideas about breaking away from authoritarian structures and artificial modes of existence in order to create one's own sense of value. I can't say I'm in agreement with them about reason (Reason Rejected). Reason is not some mere abstraction of reality as these lyrics seem to suggest. Reason is logical and ontological. It is a test for meaning, however, it should never be mistaken as a test for truth.

 

[SculptedCold]

Considering logic is a system of thought derived from specific application of reason, it is a little backwards to say that reason is logical. Reason itself isn't really a concept that can be thought of logically, or at least, formally. Of course, most people throw-around the term 'logical' with no thought at what it actually entails. The common semantic of 'logical' as most use it doesn't even scratch at the surface of what is implied by even the most informal of logical systems. Star Trek and Spock are to blame for that I reckon. It's also more correct to say that reason is meta-ontological. =)

My only problem with that lyric is the line 'It seperates reality in object and subject'. That is painfully ambiguous. It is nonsensical for reason to exist in the 'object' because reason isn't constitutional in something inanimate, so i'm tempted to think that it is mispelled or miswritten for 'into'. But anyway, even if something were logical and/or ontological, that doesn't mean it isn't an abstraction of reality. I think that such things are an abstraction in so far as they're non-divisible, non-spatial etc, but the simpler question of whether it is real or not is, in lieu of more nutty philosophy, rather common sensical. I suppose the lyric seems to imply reason is an abstraction of reality because of the line 'The object of discussion needs to be a tangible one', which implies that reason itself isn't 'real' enough to be adequate, but, the rest of the lyric doesn't follow through with that. It talks about reason's fallibility but doesn't discuss the nature of reason; it might be jumping to conclusions to say that the lyrics suggest reason is an abstraction of reality. Rather, I think they were written quite unconsciously without discussion of the ontological status of reason.

 

[Cythraul]

Considering logic is a system of thought derived from specific application of reason, it is a little backwards to say that reason is logical.

Maybe I said that in the wrong way. The point I was trying to make is that reason applies to thought and being. Reason, as it applies to thought, consists of the laws which govern all human thinking ( law of identity, non-contradiction, and excluded middle). Reason also applies to being. To put it in simple terms: there are no square circles and no uncaused events. Both of those would violate laws of thought. In observing empirical reality, you'll find that no event can be uncaused and no square circles exist.

Reason itself isn't really a concept that can be thought of logically, or at least, formally.

Of course, because you would be using reason to explain reason. It's the same issue when attempting to explain the nature of being. Being refers to what exists, what "is". Now try to answer the question what "is" being ( your answer may be circular i.e. being "is" something that exists).

Well, you seem to know your stuff pretty well. This could turn out to be a very interesting thread.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

There's no such thing as reason, or basically anything for that matter.

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

There's no such thing as reason, or basically anything for that matter.

Have you read Kant's "Critique of Pure Reason"?

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Have you read Kant's "Critique of Pure Reason"?

I don't read anything philosophical, so no.

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

I don't read anything philosophical, so no.

Oh. It's pretty interesting.

And since we're talking about philosophy, lets talk about the philosophical genius that is Phil Anslemo. I love his "If you don't like war you're a fag" theory.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Oh. It's pretty interesting.

And since we're talking about philosophy, lets talk about the philosophical genius that is Phil Anslemo. I love his "If you don't like war you're a fag" theory.

Let's not sidetrack the topic at hand.

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

Let's not sidetrack the topic at hand.

Those are good lyrics. Unfolding Disposition is a standout.

 

[Cythraul]

There's no such thing as reason, or basically anything for that matter.

Why do you say that?