distance between saddle and pickup

[Lasse Lammert]

everyone knows how different a neck pickup sounds on 22fret guitars compared to 24 fret guitars...

or even more extreme: how much difference the position between the bridge and neck pickup makes....
yet it seems like noone is questioning the position of the bridge pickup or is even taking it into consideration at all....

on my EMG equipped guitars the distance between the saddle (point the string touches) to the edge of the pickup (same strings, same tuning) varies from 2.4cm to 4cm

that's a difference of 1.6 cm....and that's quite a bit! I'd even go so far and say that 1.6cm difference in the pickup position makes a bigger difference than the type of wood etc used, when it comes to tightness etc...

if I'd grade my guitars in terms of how tight they are, that order would pretty muhc reflect how close the bridge pickup is to the saddle.....not so much which wood is being used, which trem, neck through, bolt-on, scale etc...1.6cm difference can make a HUGE difference in sound, especially for the bridge pickup...
just some food for thought

 

[FIXXXER]

i am just planing my first DIY guitar and i was thinking about exactly the same thing a few days ago.
i always read this trivial threads where people praise this and that type of wood, pickups, effects etc.
but basically the mentioned position of the pickup, or the pick/plec material/shape choice can affect the sound so much more...

cheers
S.

 

[LeSedna]

I've never fucking thought about it.

 

[Ascendant]

I'm guessing they're trem equipped? Yeah this has occured to me as well, I always had a hard time getting the intonation right on the low B on my Jackson without moving the saddle away from the pickup, most likely resulting in the mud I used to blame on the fact that my pups are passive (SD JB).

 

[Lasse Lammert]

doesn't matter if trem or not, it's just the same "problem"

btw, I think that's why I usually prefer ESP over Jacksons, the average distance seems to be bigger on Jacksons than on ESP...

that's not a "good or bad" thing, both has its advantages...I think for mid gain and rock the Jacksons are better cause of the bigger distance...but for modern metal I prefer the smaller distance most of the ESPs have.

there's no "standard" for each brand though, the distance on my MII is different from the distance on my MI, Eclipse, NV etc...just in general it seems to be a bit smaller than on the Jacksons

EDIT: and yes, it still is the JB's fault...great rock pickup, but not tight at all imo...
if you wanna stay passive try the SH15

 

[LeSedna]

I just checked on my ESP SV with no ruler, I'd say on the low string it's around 2.6cm and on the high string 1.8cm on a 12-54 intonation.

 

[John_C]

I thought about it years ago when i was building a guitar but i'd forgotten all about. Maybe Will could come in and tell us whether he's noticed a difference with his builds

 

[JeffTD]

I remember Jackson at one point touting that the little bit of extra distance between the bridge pickup and the bridge lent itself to a bigger sound than most other manufacturers, so this totally makes sense. Helps explain why my Tele is so damn tight!

Maybe Will could come in and tell us whether he's noticed a difference with his builds

On my Stinnet with a TOM, the bridge is angled a bit more than on my Schecter so that the treble side is equidistant on both, but the bass side is a bit further back on the Stinnett. Never realized this until just now - helps to explain why the Stinnett is a bit "ballsier" than the Schecter, but isn't as tight. Not sure at all if that was intentional at all, but I figured I'd mention.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

I remember Jackson at one point touting that the little bit of extra distance between the bridge pickup and the bridge lent itself to a bigger sound than most other manufacturers, so this totally makes sense. Helps explain why my Tele is so damn tight!

ah, cool, thanks for the info.
Didn't even know it was a concious decision by Jackson.
and while I agree when it comes to crunch and rock, I think that's why ESPs win (for me) when it comes to metal and low tunings with extreme gain

 

[TravisW]

Now that I think about it, my old Kramer NightSwan was probably the best guitar I ever had for recording rhythms. The bridge pickup ring was almost touching the Floyd on the guitar. Unfortunately, the neck was so small that it felt like I was playing a ukulele.

 

[LePou]

Don't know if this could be of any help.
http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResponseDemo/index.html

 

[egan.]

Don't know if this could be of any help.
http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResponseDemo/index.html

Really interesting!

 

[exoslime]

very good thought lasse, now what about the scale length and the position of the harmonics VS the pickup-position?
i´m sure that also affects the tone..

 

[John_C]

The percentage of the scale length that the pickup is positioned at is the important number, not the absolute distance. (In theory anyway)

 

[ParsonsMatt]

This distance is actually a key factor in my decision to purchase guitars, for the reasons listed above. I've sold a few guitars which I could not get to sound tight, and the bridge pickup was the reason.

 

[prostetnic]

ah, cool, thanks for the info.
Didn't even know it was a concious decision by Jackson.
and while I agree when it comes to crunch and rock, I think that's why ESPs win (for me) when it comes to metal and low tunings with extreme gain

I'll never be one to question your authority on how metal is made But what does extreme gain actually mean around here? My impression is that for most modern metal the gain knob is set to about 2-3 and the TS + strong attack delivers the rest. How is that extreme?

 

[John_C]

I'll never be one to question your authority on how metal is made But what does extreme gain actually mean around here? My impression is that for most modern metal the gain knob is set to about 2-3 and the TS + strong attack delivers the rest. How is that extreme?

gain knob at 2-3 has absolutely no meaning as a gain level without a specific amp, channel, pickups, ts settings etc...

 

[prostetnic]

Well this isn't too much gain for any hi-gain amp, or is it? When I hear "extreme gain", I imagine completely losing the tightness of the sound due to an absurd amount of gain.

 

[Wohma]

cca 2.5cm @ PRS CE24 (saddle to the edge of the pickup)
And I consider the bridge pickup sound very tight - doesn't have much of body and "balls", but the definition!
Very interesting topic.

 

[John_C]

replace "extreme" with "very high" and forget about it, i'm pretty certain Lasse wasn't talking about too much gain