Does anybody edit drums without click/grid?

[B36arin]

Alright, a bit of background here. I've been lucky enough to be working as in-house engineer in an amazing professional studio here in The Faroe Islands. I don't work with shit bands here(well, almost never), most of the time we record stuff live with professional musicians who actually make stuff groove instead of just lying straight on the click track. So instead of beat detective/quantizing I've been listening through stuff and editing single notes where it sounds off.

I recorded drums with my band this summer. We recorded two tracks, and I've only now found time to edit them. What I've been doing is listening to the track without the click track turned on and moving the hits that sound wrong instead of quantizing everything into place. I've done one song so far, and so far I've found that it's so much easier to get stuff to groove this way and sound human instead of locking everything straight onto the grid. It's more time consuming, and for 200 BPM death metal it's obviously not going to be possible. But I'm curious to see if anyone else here is actually editing this way, using ears instead of eyes.

Here's a picture that was taken of me and the owner of the studio where I work a couple of days ago:

 

[Uros]

Yeah sure man, I do that a lot with for example black metal or rawer thrash metal bands, moving kick/snare/toms/bass/vox/etc. around by ear. Needles to say, with modern stuff it's next to impossible. It sure is the best way to do it for 'groovy' stuff as you say.

On another note, that room is awesome

 

[Skinny Viking]

I've done it too many times

I prefer to have a click to work against but even then I never fix things 100% to the grid, maybe more like 75% unless I'm asked to make it robotic

 

[B36arin]

The one major advantage that I see in editing without click is that it allows small tempo changes. For instance, if a drummer rushes a fill it sounds much more natural to keep the fill a bit rushed and have the beat come in again slightly ahead of the click. The drummer will obviously compensate for the rushed fill when he comes into the beat again, but it sounds so much more natural to edit that than to have a clicky, machine-like fill.

 

[MindMunch]

Even if I´m not locking to it, I need the grid at least for visual reference.
OT: the studio owner looks like yourself from the future!

 

[OneDaySky]

I've never done it, I'm honestly to scared too, but that's purely because I've yet to track a drunner that's tight enough to do that technique.

Love those rooms as well

 

[B36arin]

OT: the studio owner looks like yourself from the future!

You have no idea how much I've been getting that

The studio is insane, there is the big control room, a big live room(which sounds GREAT), one smaller drum room(which also sounds GREAT) and a vocal booth. As I said, we're having press pictures taken at the moment, as soon as they're done I'll make a proper thread with lots of tasty pics.

 

[Skinny Viking]

its a little more time consuming but not that big of a deal really ... the main thing is mapping out your approach and sticking to it ...

I'll divide the song into blocks really quick, sometimes depending (as stated above) on how a fill is moving into the section after (ie - tempo bump or drag)

setup an editing grid within each section ... it may seem redundant when lets say 20 of 25 sections are all at the same tempo but you may find a few of them are several bpm off from the average ... thats where the human feel will be preserved

edit close to but not perfectly to the grid for each section. For double bass sections something I do to really help keep a natural feel is to just find a spot in a section that has the best, most solid and cleanest 4-8 kick hits with the snare right where it should be. Copy that spot and trim it to fall in line with your grid but then go out of grid mode and just paste them in right on the top of each measure. Don't worry about the snare or whatever else, get those kicks right. You may have gaps left over because of the slight tempo fluctuations but no big deal, just trim them out and crossfade

then go in and making sure your OHs, Hats, Ride, Toms, Snare are all grouped ... make your cuts and shift things by hand using your grid as reference.

make whatever additional little clean ups, edits and fades you need to ... then snap all the sections back together and cross fade where needed

If you listen back and it sounds very tight but still very human you're done. Consolidate each track into one file so your eyes don't bug out when the screen starts scrolling on playback and move on

 

[StayStrapped58]

I use the grid depending on the band. If the drummers good, i'll just sync the grid up to the very first notes, and kind of play with the feel instead of mapping it to hell. But i prefer it over grid, doesn't make me wanna mash my head into my desk.

 

[kdodson]

Always referencing a tempo map. If its some thing that needs to "breathe" I'll create a tempo map from a drum performance that wasn't tracked using a click. Some form of tempo map should always be created. It'll make your and anybody els's job working on the session much easier. I always make sure conductor is on and I have some sort of tempo map.

-kacey

 

[Heabow]

Yes papa I like to edit drums this way (without grid). I think it saves some musical feeling and respects the playing instead of "robotising". BUT, as mentioned earlier, it's ok with a good drummer only!

BTW I never use beat detective. I don't like it actually. I always work with slip function on.

 

[AudioGeekZine]

The one major advantage that I see in editing without click is that it allows small tempo changes. For instance, if a drummer rushes a fill it sounds much more natural to keep the fill a bit rushed and have the beat come in again slightly ahead of the click. The drummer will obviously compensate for the rushed fill when he comes into the beat again, but it sounds so much more natural to edit that than to have a clicky, machine-like fill.

Seems like a good technique, provided it doesn't mess things up for the bassist and guitarists overdubbing.

Looking forward to seeing more pix.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Man, I just need those lines there...

So I make the lines fallow the drumtrack if they weren't tracked to a click.

 

[heshian46]

I tracked a band this last weekend. They all played to the click, but came off the tempo here and there. Theres some editing to do (add a hit here and there, or adjust time on a note), but the groove is there so I wont be locking everything to the grid. However, they are more of a rock band, so it doesnt warrant being robotically on time.

 

[CarlBlomqvist]

I've done this a few times, only quantizing a few hits, with rock bands that have good drummers, never with metal (even if they have good drummers).

Cheers
Carl.

 

[AudioGeekZine]

I think I've become hypersensitive to timing recently. I think I'm going to turn off the grid for this acoustic EP I'm tracking and just fix the stuff that sounds off.

 

[Toseben]

I think I've become hypersensitive to timing recently. I think I'm going to turn off the grid for this acoustic EP I'm tracking and just fix the stuff that sounds off.

And being hypersensitive to timing, at the time you turn the grid on you realize its 100% on the grid.

Edit: Forgot to answer the question. Yes I do edit drums this way 'cause I've used to it and sounds just better with little groove.

 

[AStudio]

I do things slightly different. I edit without the click playing. Absolutely cant stand that thing blasting away in my ear. I edit to the grid but mute the click. I can actually hear timing differences better as i don't have any distractions. Just my way

 

[Skinny Viking]

^ not just your way

 

[Heabow]

I do things slightly different. I edit without the click playing. Absolutely cant stand that thing blasting away in my ear. I edit to the grid but mute the click. I can actually hear timing differences better as i don't have any distractions. Just my way

Uh... Some of you guys hear the click when editing??? Wow, working on stuff 8 hours a day must be very irritating!!!! I mean I had to do that for particular parts or fill but not all the time during the song.

Honestly, I don't give a shit if the drummer play straight to the click or not, if I can hear the click a little bit before/after a kick or something. If it's still musical it's good for me.
For me the most important is that the band play together and move together around the tempo. Call it groove. Even (especially?) for the most extreme band of the world.

I think it's the same for the most of you, uh?