Does Tuning Down Make It Heavier?

[sentinel72]

So I'm at work with Dimmu Borgir's Deathcult Armageddon on the iPod. A cubicle of pure evil today.

Anyway.

Dimmu does not tune down. Standard E boys and girls.

Yet I pretty sure this qualifies as "heavy". They may not be your favorite black metal band... Or whatever label the labelers are using.

Nevertheless, the heaviness is in no way dinished by their choice in guitar tuning IMHO.

So, why do so many bands tune down? Is it a good thing? Bad thing? Does it help their sound? Or does it lower many of them into the muck of "all their guitars sound the same"?

Discuss.

 

[genocide roach]

well, youre right and wrong about DCA being in E standard. they use 7 string guitars, which would make it B standard. but if you ignore the B string, then yes, its in E.

but to answer your question, it depends on what you define as heavy. if you think chunky breakdowns are heavy, then detuning helps. but if youre more riff minded, then tuning might not be a factor
~gR~

 

[sentinel72]

I don't hear much of that B. If any. Not saying its not there. I wasnt present in the recording. And don't know the guys well enough to be able to ask them. And yeah, even with a 7-string, we are still in standard tuning.

Of course, the tab around the net is less than "official". But I dont find any mention of 7 string guitars there either.

Where do you hear the low B string?

I guess when I say heavy, I just mean an overall vibe. I think the writing of the tunes is responsible. Take a band like Black Label Society. They would sound weak at standard tuning. As the songs don't use anything else but the guitars and bass to give it a "heavy" vibe. So they need to tune down. IMHO anyway.

*Many metal/guitar enthusiasts do not realize the fact that Dimmu Borgir uses mainly standard guitar tuning. Following the release of Death Cult Armageddon, the band's guitarists were interviewed by the major guitar publication "Guitar World". In that interview, the guitarists stated that they mainly used standard 6 string tuning (otherwise known as the "E tuning"). The guitarists also stated they used standard 7 string guitars, but rarely.

 

[genocide roach]

aside from them playing custom jackson 7 strings in the music video, i did find some tabs that have it played on a 7 string. it starts on the 4th fret though.



reguardless of the tuning and what fret they play, the thicker strings add a heavier tone too

ive also seen them play it on 6 stringers, but i believe there is a key change as well.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcXJAxaI_9Akey[/ame]...
~gR~

 

[cannibal corpse]

Probably not, although I prefer the often muddier tone of lower tunings, it definitely doesn't make it heavier necessarily, it depends entirely on the guitarist playing to make it heavy and the EQ settings. I'm pretty sure Obituary's Slowly We Rot was played in E standard, and it's often regarded as Obituary's heaviest album. To me it is, at least. Depends on what you mean by "heavy" too. If you mean slow and crushing, yeah, you want to tune down but if you mean heavy as in really brutal I don't think tuning down is necessary, but it often sounds cooler.

EDIT: Assuming we're talking about guitar here... the bass and sometimes drums go a long way towards making something heavy as well.

 

[sentinel72]

The down tuning part is exclusive to guitars and bass.

"Heavy" refers to the entire thing.

And yeah, itsd all subjective. Just looking for others opinions.

To me, downtuning is very overused and sucks a lot of definition out of music. Not always, but frequently.

Do I dislike all downtuned music? No, not at all.

I find it interesting that bands like Dimmu Borgir and Opeth primarily stick with standard tuning yet there are droves of bands tuning down to get their heaviness.

It seems like its being used as a crutch. Instead of writing dynamically heavy music.

Again, just my opinion.

 

[Lateralus14]

There's a lot of factors in "heaviness" so yes any tuning can achieve heaviness but that doesn't change the fact that downtuning can help. In black metal its a lot less relevant since the genre is originally so treble oriented (yes there's tons of low notes now with bands like Deathspell Omega and Darkspace but you could make a black metal song without the 6th string even). You can achieve heaviness with not only lower pitches but with blast beats (i.e. how Opeth's Deliverance gets heavy) or with sheer musical density (take any funeral doom band with like 3 guitar/keys tracks going along with that droning growl). I wouldn't be so quick to call it a crutch, there's so many more factors and its just a fact that it sounds cool .

 

[The Emptier]

this is chock full of lulz

dimmu borgir is not a black metal band

and lots of shitty bands tune down to "try" and be heavy (ie. every shitty hardcore/deathcore band out there) and apparently the more strings you have the cooler you are to! there are bands that play in e and can rip your fucking face off (ie opeth, dimmu borgir, metallica etc. etc). its really just the riffs and how you attack it. and tone helps to

 

[sentinel72]

They may not be your favorite black metal band... Or whatever label the labelers are using.

I knew I put that in there for a reason.

 

[Lateralus14]

this is chock full of lulz

dimmu borgir is not a black metal band

and lots of shitty bands tune down to "try" and be heavy (ie. every shitty hardcore/deathcore band out there) and apparently the more strings you have the cooler you are to! there are bands that play in e and can rip your fucking face off (ie opeth, dimmu borgir, metallica etc. etc). its really just the riffs and how you attack it. and tone helps to

Well there's also no fucking doubt that there's good bands that do downtune and are heavy. So honestly what we should all tell the op is that there a ton of other factors and heaviness is in no way dependent on downtuning or not downtuning.

 

[sentinel72]

So honestly what we should all tell the op is that there...

"tell the op"

What does that mean?

 

[Lateralus14]

op = original poster = you

 

[sentinel72]

OP = Gotcha.

Yeah, that is my point exactly. Look at the bands that do not tune down that are still "heavy".

Thats what led me to ask the question.

 

[Diclonius]

its really just the riffs and how you attack it. and tone helps to

Yeah, pretty much. It´s not just the tuning, is the way you play the song, along with the other instruments doing their part to make it better. But some times, low tunings (along with somewhat bad production and songwriting) suck. Just listen to Terrorizer´s Darker Days Ahead for an example.

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

A lot of your are overlooking that bands may tune down to better accomodate the range of their vocalist.

There are also people who prefer different notes or key signatures, even independently from the riffs being played. For example, I prefer writing most of my songs with tonal centers of D or F#, because they feel "darker" to me than other keys.

 

[Harry Hughes]

As far as I'm concerned you can goddamn tune a guitar 3 semi tones up from E standard and still be as heavy as fuck. I'm saying this from the perspective of a 7 string player, no less.
I bought a 7 string for more range, not for more "brootalz".
I tune down the B string to A sometimes, because it offers different chord shapes, not for the "Brootalz".
Notes just represent different emotions and moods to me.
Meshuggah with 8 strings tuned to F doesn't sound any heavier than Opeth tuned to E standard IMO, it's just different emotions and feelings.

 

[mrbean667]

If only Slipknot and Korn would realise that they are not heavy just because they're in Drop Z.
Heaviness is achieved using all of the members of the band, just look at Strapping Young Lad.

 

[sentinel72]

I agree.

I think a lot of definition is lost at these dropped tunings. You start interfering with the bass notes more and so much of it turns to mud.

Not all of it. But some.

Makes me wonder what some down tuning bands are gaining.

Yeah, dropping a bit to better accommodate a vocalist makes sense. But so does working to increasing your singers range a bit. If your singer needs the band in drop B its probably gonna be muddy as hell anyway.

 

[Lateralus14]

There is nothing wrong with downtuning. I don't think it needs to be called a gimmick or anything. It is just another of tons of musical elements that can be done tastefully or not. It certainly adds to the "sludginess" of bands like Isis or Pelican or to the gutteral vox of say, Karl Sanders of Nile. Gets a little annoying when bands like Meshuggah need a damn 8th string just because um, they invented a bass guitar for that lol, but again that's just a bad application of a good technique.

 

[BeneGuitar01]

It's all about gauge of string and what is being played, for instance, Opeth has some seriously heavy stuff and they are tuned to E